Goebbels at Nuremberg

Cook

Banned
why would he let himself be captured anyway?

Himmler was captured, had the guards been a bit quicker he’d have been in the dock at Nuremburg.

Goering surrendered himself to the Americans but kept his suicide capsules.

It is therefore not beyond the realm of possibility for Goebbels to be at Nuremburg. You’d have needed a crowbar to get him away from the bloody microphone though.
 

Nietzsche

Banned
Goering, Goebbels, and Himmler at Nuremberg. How it should've been.
I disagree. Goering, I think, may have been treated slightly unfairly by history. Am I the only one who noticed the massive change in his person after the Night of the Long Knives? It was like he was a broken man afterward.
 
Fully aware? Probably. Able to do anything about it except resign or commit suicide in protest? Nope.

He was acquitted of planning aggressive war in OTL; too junior, participated in violating Versailles but that wasn't held as criminal in itself at Nuremburg. The only thing he was convicted of was War Crimes, the sinking of civilian vessels - and you get a sharp divide on the court on that one. Allied military officers conceded that his targets were legitimate; civilians generally did not.

The balance is close enough on Doenitz that one more powerful argument could tip it; Goebbels says that he declared the targets legitimate, f'r'ex...

err... sorry - doenitz wasn´t hold guilty for commiting war crimes... he was commited for other things, but with Nimitz declaring, that his submarines did it the same way from beginning this case was closed.
Or do i misunderstood you?
 
err... sorry - doenitz wasn´t hold guilty for commiting war crimes... he was commited for other things, but with Nimitz declaring, that his submarines did it the same way from beginning this case was closed.
Or do i misunderstood you?

I think Nimitz deserves a huge amount of respect for that. Nuremburg still has the whiff of victors' justice lingering over it in some cases (when it comes to the military, not the Nazis, obviously - Jodl is the most controversial hanging IIRC) but it was decisions like Nimitz's that made it a just end to the war rather than Versailles II: The Trial.

Morrell does the same thing in TL-191, doesn't he? Defending Potter because the USA used enemy uniforms too.
 
...as bad and horrible as we may see it now, it was mostly common practice during the era to starve the locals, so I don't see that being any more against him than it was Goering.
Huh? I know that the Allies prohibit food imports into Germany directly after the war which led to a dire food situation in Germany and left many death, but they never planned to let millions of Germans wilfully starve to death.

The Nazis in contrast saw death by starvation as a convenient means to kill of the undesired Slavic populations of Eastern Europe.
 
Himmler was captured, had the guards been a bit quicker he’d have been in the dock at Nuremburg.

Goering surrendered himself to the Americans but kept his suicide capsules.

It is therefore not beyond the realm of possibility for Goebbels to be at Nuremburg. You’d have needed a crowbar to get him away from the bloody microphone though.


nope - himmler wasnt nearly captured.
he was with doenitz in flensburg... the british troops neared and himmler commit self murder... under no circumstances can they catch him. not in this universe.
 
nope - himmler wasnt nearly captured.
he was with doenitz in flensburg... the british troops neared and himmler commit self murder... under no circumstances can they catch him. not in this universe.

No, he was captured with some other officials and when he was recognised as Himmler he decided it probably was for the best that he wasn't alive anymore. So he was in custody for a while.
 
I think Nimitz deserves a huge amount of respect for that. Nuremburg still has the whiff of victors' justice lingering over it in some cases (when it comes to the military, not the Nazis, obviously - Jodl is the most controversial hanging IIRC) but it was decisions like Nimitz's that made it a just end to the war rather than Versailles II: The Trial.

Morrell does the same thing in TL-191, doesn't he? Defending Potter because the USA used enemy uniforms too.


well, basically nürnberg is a mess, criminal and not worth to be remembered.

writing this i does not mean i have any friendly thoughts about the nazis there...

but - if you follow law you cannot change law and speak "justice" witch changed laws...

also, if you punish evil behaviour, some/many? allied officers should have been next to these guys in nürnberg... looking into a death sentence...
but the allies made clear that crimes commited by allies will not be counted... so basically this "law" is nothing else as Freislers "law"...

it had been better to wait untill some german judication comes online, make laws and then let the germans punish these guys.

but anytime the Victory nations do unjust things but punish the enemy for the same things this is not law, only a joke.

about some death sentences... they checked in the last 10 years, many are mistakes

from a moral point they deserved death - but morality has nothing to do with justice... and with this it wasn´t a smart or just idea.

The problem is, such crimes like the nazis did had no laws that could counter them... so - if you would be "just", they need to be spoken free...

today, any lawyer will free em in 5 minutes... so if this is true the whole thing is wrong.

or to make it even clearer: gassing people wasn´t illegal... it was evil crime, but not illegal (i hope you see the point - i do not excuse the nazis, just the way they were treated after the war was not legal)
 
No, he was captured with some other officials and when he was recognised as Himmler he decided it probably was for the best that he wasn't alive anymore. So he was in custody for a while.


well, have you some source?

common knowlege is, that himmler was with doenitz, in the moment the british troops to arrest the "last german government" come near the building he killed himself...

if german guards (until may 23 they had still weapons) had arrested him, maybe... but not british troops
 
Huh? I know that the Allies prohibit food imports into Germany directly after the war which led to a dire food situation in Germany and left many death, but they never planned to let millions of Germans wilfully starve to death.

The Nazis in contrast saw death by starvation as a convenient means to kill of the undesired Slavic populations of Eastern Europe.

err.. that isn´t true... morgentau plan was the most important one... kaufmann another...

so the plans to kill or let die 20-30 million germans exist. the will to do it was there, too... just the economics said, with an agricultural germany central europe will never recover... and esp the usa had no interests in paying forever...

if you look deeper into it, the allies let die a lot germans in late 1945... even in 1946 the supply situation was really bad, much worse than it could have been, this was part of the "punishment"

So you are not true - that is nothing compared with the nazis crime, but if you remember the 800.000-1mio dead germans by the british blocade in 1914-1919!, it was common behaviour. Not in that scale or purpose, but still, it happend and was used - even later by the french in algeria... after the holocaust.

some "historicans" belive (can´t say that this is true - but if you want to look yourself) that Eisenhower led die 20-30% of the "Rheinwiesen-prisoners"... fact is, they denied the german prisioners nearly anything, so many died. This comes near the "kill by starvation", it was after the war

just look for "Rheinwiesen 1945"...

If you like you can throw in also the "german wimen need to have sex with allied soldiers to not die by starvation"... today this would be a big outcry, the soldiers, the officers high to Eisenhower would be imprisoned... another thing that wasn´t punished (i mentioned it: you win your wars, or peace will be hell)

So, maybe you dig a bit in the internet to find out... again, nothing in the scale the nazis did, but still big crimes

but everybody with a smart brain knows, war is hell and no good exist in it.
 

Cook

Banned
nope - himmler wasnt nearly captured.
he was with doenitz in flensburg... the british troops neared and himmler commit self murder... under no circumstances can they catch him. not in this universe.

Here’s a tip, learn some history before trying to argue around here.

Himmler was captured by the British in Bremen (nowhere near Flensburg) on 22 May 1945. He had tried to evade capture by disguising himself as a member of the Gendarmerie but was identified while in captivity. His was due to be interrogated at Luneburg prior to being sent to Nuremburg for trial but bit a cyanide capsule when he was about to be strip searched. He died on the 23 May 1945.


well, have you some source?
Try a history book.
 
Last edited:
Here’s a tip, learn some history before trying to argue around here.

Himmler was captured by the British in Bremen on 22 May 1945. He had tried to evade capture by disguising himself as a member of the Gendarmerie but was identified while in captivity. His was due to be interrogated at Luneburg prior to being sent to Nuremburg for trial but bit a cyanide capsule when he was about to be strip searched. He died on the 23 May 1945.

This. It's common knowledge, as opposed to what you claimed was common knowledge. Which, er, isn't.
 

Cook

Banned
err... sorry - doenitz wasn´t hold guilty for commiting war crimes...


Doenitz was found guilty of Crimes against Peace and War Crimes.

well, basically nürnberg is a mess, criminal and not worth to be remembered...

Internationally the Nuremburg War Crimes Trials are recognised as one of the benchmark events of International Law.

To err once is forgivable but you’ve so far repeatedly come out with blatantly ridiculous remarks. I suggest you stop now before you become the first person I have ever reported for trolling.
 
Last edited:

Cook

Banned
Am I the only one who noticed the massive change in his person after the Night of the Long Knives? It was like he was a broken man afterward.

You are indeed alone. Goering was one of the key conspirators of the Night of the Long Knives. Gregor Strasser, who was not a supporter of Ernst Rhome and posed no threat to Hitler, was eliminated because he was a rival to Goering and Himmler. The Night of the Long Knives was in 1934; Goering didn’t even become Commander-in-Chief of the Luftwaffe until 1935 and wasn’t given authority over the Four Year Plan until 1936. Goering’s peak of power, prestige and influence wasn’t until 1938-39.

He was found guilty of all three indictments at Nuremburg and there has never been a whiff of doubt about his guilt.
 
nope - himmler wasnt nearly captured.
he was with doenitz in flensburg... the british troops neared and himmler commit self murder... under no circumstances can they catch him. not in this universe.

Maybe if they bust into his bedroom while he's asleep?

Your hard-core certainty doesn't really belong in AH.
 
but - if you follow law you cannot change law and speak "justice" witch changed laws...
They didn't create law. What the Nazis did was against international law as it existed before the begin of World War II. It wasn't codified, but that's no prerequisite for something being the law.

also, if you punish evil behaviour, some/many? allied officers should have been next to these guys in nürnberg... looking into a death sentence...
but the allies made clear that crimes commited by allies will not be counted... so basically this "law" is nothing else as Freislers "law"...
While War crimes happened on allied sides as well, your claim has no base in fact. The Allies did neither start the war nor tried to exterminate whole nations. Also you must remember, that some of the accused got free, because allied officers testified that they had use the same means.

The problem is, such crimes like the nazis did had no laws that could counter them... so - if you would be "just", they need to be spoken free...
That's not true. By the time WWII had started waging a war of aggression to acquire new territory was clearly not considered acceptable by customary international law, as evidenced for example by the reaction of the declaration of independence of Manchuria.

or to make it even clearer: gassing people wasn´t illegal... it was evil crime, but not illegal (i hope you see the point - i do not excuse the nazis, just the way they were treated after the war was not legal)
It was illegal, both under international as well as under domestic German law. Heck, it was even illegal under the laws the Nazis had warped the original German law to.
 
Top