God have mercy upon us, What have we done? (Timeline!)

Nietzsche

Banned
(OOC: Yeah. My first timeline. It's going to be told by exerpts from books and such, so please bare with me. I'll get around to explaining everything eventually. For short, refer to it as WhwD. )



“One of the largest casualties before the war was not freedom, the minorities, the Leftists or even the dissolution of five nations. It was European culture itself that died. From Lisbon to Warsaw, Berlin to Athens, the nations of Europe delved into a black hole that would lead to warfare, genocide and the extinction of most of what founded Western Civilization. A war that raged from February 16th 1940 to November 6th 1952 would show that, in total war, there is truly no winner. German Fueher Hermann Goering was purportedly quoted as muttering “Gott Gnade nach uns, was haben wir getan? (God have mercy on us, what have we done?)” after foreign minister von Ribbentrop asked him how his visit to Paris, Warsaw, Brussels and Tallinn. He was not seen by friends or the public for a week afterwards.”
Excerpt from Dr. Michael Shane Rose’s ‘Forging Iron Europa’(2006)

Iron Europa


“In the following map, you will see the opening engagements of the conflict. On Febuary 16th , at roughly 4am, the first reports of French invasion into Belgium were reported. Two hours later, Dutch and German units entered Flanders and began to secure the area before the French army (largely one of infantry this early in the war) could secure vital areas. Luxembourg was also invaded at roughly this time, with German and French forces engaging in conflict as early as 7am.

Roused early, Hermann Goering green lighted the invasion of Poland, for as he saw it, it would only be a matter of time before the Polish Army acted in conjunction with it’s French allies. Goering also rallied the Luftwaffe, undisputedly the most advanced—and most powerful, airforce of the time. The strikes into Poland were decimating, with the already pro-German Free City of Danzig, under State President Albert Forster signing over it’s independence to Fedor von Bock. Forster, a member of the German National Socialist Party, was then proclaimed Gauleiter of the newly formed Reichsgau of Danzig-West Prussia.

Luftwaffe strikes in Poland, France and Belgium, and the French side of the channel occur as rapidly as possible. French aircraft were largely on the ground until roughly noon of the day, when the attacks had stopped. The French airforce would regroup and, by the time of the second strikes, be able to mount something of a defense against the German attacks.

Note: The Soviet invasion of Poland would occur a day after the German invasion, and that is when this map is roughly set. German Foreign Minister Ribbentrop and his Soviet counterpart, Moltov, signed a recently discovered pact between the two nations. It had been kept a State Secret of the Greater German Reich. But it basically involved a pact of non-aggression, territorial partition of Poland, promising Finland to the Soviet Union and at a later date, the situation of the Baltic nations.”
Excerpt from Michael Anthony Francione’s “War Without Mercy: The Second Great European War”(2007)
 
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Tellus

Banned
Very nice maps of Europe! I suppose Hitler was assassinated sometime between Munich and the invasion of Poland. The only thing I'd note is that OTL's Germany, depending on how far back was your POD of course, didn't have the resources to win a two front wars against France and Poland simultaneously.

For plausibility's sake, the war in the east is likely be much more difficult and slow in your timeline, and any gains in the west limited until it's conclusion. If Britain is part of this, time isn't in Germany's favor either. But since your French are on the offensive, Im guessing this may not be the case, and the POD may be further back than I thought. Another pitfall to avoid is Goering himself; he has some redeeming graces, but he has a really long list of character flaws in OTL, so it's not clear he would be a much better leader than Hitler.

Edit: How come the Soviets have forces in Latvia and Lithuania on day two of the war? And what the hell is that state in NE Spain? Is Iraq really not British? Hehe.
 

Nietzsche

Banned
Very nice maps of Europe! I suppose Hitler was assassinated sometime between Munich and the invasion of Poland. The only thing I'd note is that OTL's Germany, depending on how far back was your POD of course, didn't have the resources to win a two front wars against France and Poland simultaneously.

For plausibility's sake, the war in the east is likely be much more difficult and slow in your timeline, and any gains in the west limited until it's conclusion. If Britain is part of this, time isn't in Germany's favor either. But since your French are on the offensive, Im guessing this may not be the case, and the POD may be further back than I thought. Another pitfall to avoid is Goering himself; he has some redeeming graces, but he has a really long list of character flaws in OTL, so it's not clear he would be a much better leader than Hitler.

Edit: How come the Soviets have forces in Latvia and Lithuania on day two of the war? And what the hell is that state in NE Spain? Is Iraq really not British? Hehe.
Latviaand Lithuania are German allies. So are Hungary, Slovakia and the Netherlands.

And Goering, I feel, would be better because he wasn't afraid of Realpolitik. Nazi, yes, but not so stupidly ideological he would put ethnic cleansing over the war effort.

And yes, France is in a different state, and Britain isn't very fond of them at the moment. And that Spanish nation is Catalonia, which broke away in the last years of the SCW at France's..insistence.

As for the "no two fonts". Quite simple: The 'defense posturing' inside of Belgium is to secure a defensive line, not an invasion. Holland is doing the same.
 

Nietzsche

Banned
“The air campaign would have a massive toll in France and Germany, Belgium, Holland, and later, most of Europe. But this portion of the book is dedicated to the early engagements. Dewotine D.520s engaged Me109s over the Alsace, Wallonia and the fields of Flanders. Initial statistics showed overwhelming German superiority, but as 1940 drug on, the French pilots that were left began to understand their plane’s capability. The D.520 was superior to it’s German counterpart in everything but maximum speed, climbing and armament. Air combat is, in effect, a turning war. This is where the French began to succeed. Taking advantage of some German Pilot’s cockiness and luring them down only to out-turn them and rip the 109 to pieces with its 20mm cannon. It also showed prowess in shooting down He-111P bomber aircraft. But it would be for naught, as German pilots began to understand their height advantage.”
E. C. Goldborough’s “The New Knights”(1983)


Map of the air war and the stalemate seen in the early war.




“As the initial Battle for Belgium started to peter out in the winter, the German High Command under Franz Halder accepted a plan devised by Heinz Guderian to smash the French lines of defense, and to prevent another Trench War. Panzer Divisions from the initial victories in Poland were removed and sent to the areas of Belgium under German control. The Dutch forces were to launch a distraction-invasion into Nord-pas-de-Calais and also into Wallonia. It was a suicide attack for all intents and purposes for the Dutch. The counter attack began on November 20th before sunrise, with the Panzer Divisions set to begin their assault at 10AM.”
Ryan Keith Dempsey’s “Bloody Belgium”(2000)

“The Balkans. A topic that, many today, find unsettling. Undoubtedly, many of you here listening to me are of Bosnian, Albanian or Montenegrin descent. On the 9th of October, 1934, King Alexander I of Yugoslavia was gunned down. It has been said that the day he died, so did the Yugoslav Nation. While it collapsed four years after his death, his death was the primer for the slow dissolution of the state. Taking cues originally from the Nazi party in promoting racial supremacy, the official destruction of the state started when the Ustašastaged what can only be called a Coup. A bomb exploded under the Parliament. The death of nigh the entire government, and the secession of Croatia from Yugoslavia, brought forth a civil war that would last until 1940. Slovenia and Montenegro would be the only two break away states to actually be lost during the war, and that would only be due to rigged plecibites held by Germany and Italy, respectively. Regardless, the Ustaša would shift from simple Racial Supremacy, to the far more brutal methods of Jean Duc de Guise’s Action Francaise goons and lackeys.”
Snippet of Paul Peyton Magno’s speech to students of Yale University, March 16th 1984

“Sometime during the war, while it is heavily disputed on who used it first, a new strain of Mustard Gas was employed in Belgium in late 1940. It was used first on a field level, and later it was dropped from aircraft on civilians and used in the death camps in Holland and Flanders…”
Selected paragraph of Kurt Aidan O'Sullivan Brown’s unreleased book “Marching Through the Clouds”(2008)
 
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Sachyriel

Banned
Yes, I agree with those above this post. Great time line, and it will contain some "Interesting Times" to say the least.

I would like to know more about what Britain is doing in this TL though.
 

ninebucks

Banned
Could you try scaling the maps down? Its pretty annoying have to scroll all the way left and all the way right to read the text.
 
Could you try scaling the maps down? Its pretty annoying have to scroll all the way left and all the way right to read the text.
I think the best option would be for him to link them. They're very nice maps and I for one would not like to see them shrunk.
 
“The D.520 was superior to it’s German counterpart in everything but maximum speed, climbing and armament. Air combat is, in effect, a turning war. This is where the French began to succeed. ... But it would be for naught, as German pilots began to understand their height advantage.”

That means the Germans had the initiative (greater speed) & the option to disengage/re-engage at will... Where's the D.520's advantage? And air combat isn't "a turning war", & hasn't been since OTL 1916, when Boelcke realized the optimal tactic was dive from out of the sun on an unsuspecting victim & kill him.
 

Deleted member 5719

Catalonia's a fair bit bigger than that as a nation, although not as a province.

Only according to the people who live in the Spanish province of Catalonia, the rest of the regions included in the putative nation (Valencia, Baleares, Rousillon and various other odds and sods) are distinctly unimpressed about the idea....

When I saw the map I thought that this was going to be an ultra-fascist-wank, with Francesc Macia's early thirties coup creating a National Socialist Catalonia.
 

Nietzsche

Banned
Only according to the people who live in the Spanish province of Catalonia, the rest of the regions included in the putative nation (Valencia, Baleares, Rousillon and various other odds and sods) are distinctly unimpressed about the idea....

When I saw the map I thought that this was going to be an ultra-fascist-wank, with Francesc Macia's early thirties coup creating a National Socialist Catalonia.

Close. This is a "Fascist wank" but it's also going to be the "Dystopia personified". Still working on the 3rd installment. Mostly going to detail the dire situation Germany is in by 1940, and just what is going on in France.
 

Deleted member 5719

Close. This is a "Fascist wank" but it's also going to be the "Dystopia personified". Still working on the 3rd installment. Mostly going to detail the dire situation Germany is in by 1940, and just what is going on in France.

look forward to it... nowt wrong wi' a bit of dystopia.
 
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