Your forgetting, Lincoln in TTL grew up in Mississippi which would have changed his mindset on slavery. Even if he was having misgivings about it doesn't mean he wouldn't own slaves, maybe switching it from an economical view point for owning them to a moral "I'm going to own them to civilize them" mentality and have him treat them better than other plantation owners would be better. just an idea
Go South, Young Man: President Abraham Lincoln, CSA
- Thread starter robertp6165
- Start date
Your forgetting, Lincoln in TTL grew up in Mississippi which would have changed his mindset on slavery. Even if he was having misgivings about it doesn't mean he wouldn't own slaves, maybe switching it from an economical view point for owning them to a moral "I'm going to own them to civilize them" mentality and have him treat them better than other plantation owners would be better. just an idea
AmIndHistoryAuthor
Banned
Lincoln's father partly chose to NOT move to the South because of the slavery issue. It was apparently a deeply felt religious conviction.
Having him become a slaveholder, and then pass this along to his son, is about as likely as Garrison becoming a slaveowner.
---------------
http://sc94.ameslab.gov/TOUR/alincoln.html
In 1816 the Lincolns moved to Indiana, "partly on account of slavery," Abraham recalled, "but chiefly on account of difficulty in land titles in Kentucky." Land ownership was more secure in Indiana because the Land Ordinance of 1785 provided for surveys by the federal government; moreover, the Northwest Ordinance of 1787 forbade slavery in the area. Lincoln's parents belonged to a faction of the Baptist church that disapproved of slavery, and this affiliation may account for Abraham's later statement that he was "naturally anti-slavery" and >>>could not remember when he "did not so think, and feel."<<<
-----------------
Probably the most striking quotes from Lincoln are those where he depicts slaveowners as the most repugnant of all human beings.
The slave-breeders and slave-traders, are a small, odious and detested class, among you; and yet in politics, they dictate the course of all of you, and are as completely your masters, as you are the master of your own negroes.
--August 24, 1855 Letter to Joshua Speed
Others, also from http://showcase.netins.net/web/creative/lincoln/speeches/quotes.htm
If as the friends of colonization hope, the present and coming generations of our countrymen shall by any means, succeed in freeing our land from the dangerous presence of slavery; and, at the same time, in restoring a captive people to their long-lost father-land, with bright prospects for the future; and this too, so gradually, that neither races nor individuals shall have suffered by the change, it will indeed be a glorious consummation.
--July 6, 1852 Eulogy on Henry Clay
Slavery is founded in the selfishness of man's nature -- opposition to it is in his love of justice. These principles are an eternal antagonism; and when brought into collision so fiercely, as slavery extension brings them, shocks, and throes, and convulsions must ceaselessly follow. Repeal the Missouri Compromise -- repeal all compromises -- repeal the declaration of independence -- repeal all past history, you still can not repeal human nature. It still will be the abundance of man's heart, that slavery extension is wrong; and out of the abundance of his heart, his mouth will continue to speak.
--October 16, 1854 Speech at Peoria
The Autocrat of all the Russias will resign his crown, and proclaim his subjects free republicans sooner than will our American masters voluntarily give up their slaves.
--August 15, 1855 Letter to George Robertson
You know I dislike slavery; and you fully admit the abstract wrong of it.
--August 24, 1855 Letter to Joshua Speed
The slave-breeders and slave-traders, are a small, odious and detested class, among you; and yet in politics, they dictate the course of all of you, and are as completely your masters, as you are the master of your own negroes.
--August 24, 1855 Letter to Joshua Speed
I believe this Government cannot endure, permanently half slave and half free. I do not expect the Union to be dissolved -- I do not expect the house to fall -- but I do expect it will cease to be divided.
--June 16, 1858 House Divided Speech
I have always hated slavery, I think as much as any Abolitionist.
--July 10, 1858 Speech at Chicago
Now I confess myself as belonging to that class in the country who contemplate slavery as a moral, social and political evil...
--October 7, 1858 Debate at Galesburg, Illinois
He [Stephen Douglas] is blowing out the moral lights around us, when he contends that whoever wants slaves has a right to hold them; that he is penetrating, so far as lies in his power, the human soul, and eradicating the light of reason and the love of liberty, when he is in every possible way preparing the public mind, by his vast influence, for making the institution of slavery perpetual and national.
--October 7, 1858 Lincoln-Douglas Debate at Galesburg, Illinois
When Judge Douglas says that whoever, or whatever community, wants slaves, they have a right to have them, he is perfectly logical if there is nothing wrong in the institution; but if you admit that it is wrong, he cannot logically say that anybody has a right to do wrong.
--October 13, 1858 Debate at Quincy, Illinois
This is a world of compensations; and he who would be no slave, must consent to have no slave.
--April 6, 1859 Letter to Henry Pierce
Now what is Judge Douglas' Popular Sovereignty? It is, as a principle, no other than that, if one man chooses to make a slave of another man, neither that other man nor anybody else has a right to object.
--September 16, 1859 Speech in Columbus, Ohio
An inspection of the Constitution will show that the right of property in a slave in not "distinctly and expressly affirmed" in it.
--February 27, 1860 Speech at the Cooper Institute
We believe that the spreading out and perpetuity of the institution of slavery impairs the general welfare. We believe -- nay, we know, that that is the only thing that has ever threatened the perpetuity of the Union itself.
--September 17, 1859 Speech in Cincinnati, Ohio
Let there be no compromise on the question of extending slavery. If there be, all our labor is lost, and, ere long, must be done again.
--December 10, 1860 Letter to Lyman Trumbull
You think slavery is right and ought to be extended; while we think it is wrong and ought to be restricted. That I suppose is the rub. It certainly is the only substantial difference between us.
--December 22, 1860 Letter to Alexander Stephens
I say now, however, as I have all the while said, that on the territorial question -- that is, the question of extending slavery under the national auspices, -- I am inflexible. I am for no compromise which assists or permits the extension of the institution on soil owned by the nation.
--February 1, 1861 Letter to William H. Seward
One section of our country believes slavery is right, and ought to be extended, while the other believes it is wrong, and ought not to be extended.
--March 4, 1861 Inaugural Address
I am naturally anti-slavery. If slavery is not wrong, nothing is wrong. I can not remember when I did not so think, and feel. And yet I have never understood that the Presidency conferred upon me an unrestricted right to act officially upon this judgment and feeling.
--April 4, 1864 Letter to Albert Hodges
One eighth of the whole population were colored slaves, not distributed generally over the Union, but localized in the Southern part of it. These slaves constituted a peculiar and powerful interest. All knew that this interest was, somehow, the cause of the war.
--March 4, 1865 Inaugural Address
On the question of liberty, as a principle, we are not what we have been. When we were the political slaves of King George, and wanted to be free, we called the maxim that "all men are created equal" a self evident truth; but now when we have grown fat, and have lost all dread of being slaves ourselves, we have become so greedy to be masters that we call the same maxim "a self evident lie."
--August 15, 1855 Letter to George Robertson
I leave you, hoping that the lamp of liberty will burn in your bosoms until there shall no longer be a doubt that all men are created free and equal.
--July 10, 1858 Speech at Chicago, Illinois
Our reliance is in the love of liberty which God has planted in our bosoms. Our defense is in the preservation of the spirit which prizes liberty as the heritage of all men, in all lands, everywhere.
--September 11, 1858 Speech at Edwardsville, Illinois
This is a world of compensations; and he who would be no slave, must consent to have no slave. Those who deny freedom to others, deserve it not for themselves; and, under a just God, can not long retain it.
--April 6, 1859 Letter to Henry Pierce
I have never had a feeling politically that did not spring from the sentiments embodied in the Declaration of Independence.
--February 22, 1861 Address in Independence Hall
I have here stated my purpose according to my view of official duty; and I intend no modification of my oft-expressed personal wish that all men everywhere could be free.
--August 22, 1862 Letter to Horace Greeley
In giving freedom to the slave, we assure freedom to the free -- honorable alike in what we give, and what we preserve. We shall nobly save, or meanly lose, the last best, hope of earth.
--December 1, 1862 Message to Congress
Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.
--November 19, 1863 Gettysburg Address
The world has never had a good definition of the word liberty, and the American people, just now, are much in want of one. We all declare for liberty; but in using the same word we do not all mean the same thing.
--April 18, 1864 Address at Baltimore
"We have, as all will agree, a free Government, where every man has a right to be equal with every other man. In this great struggle, this form of Government and every form of human right is endangered if our enemies succeed."
--August 22, 1864 Speech to the One Hundred Sixty-fourth Ohio Regiment
Every advocate of slavery naturally desires to see blasted, and crushed, the liberty promised the black man by the new constitution.
--November 14, 1864 Letter to Stephen A. Hurlbut
Having him become a slaveholder, and then pass this along to his son, is about as likely as Garrison becoming a slaveowner.
---------------
http://sc94.ameslab.gov/TOUR/alincoln.html
In 1816 the Lincolns moved to Indiana, "partly on account of slavery," Abraham recalled, "but chiefly on account of difficulty in land titles in Kentucky." Land ownership was more secure in Indiana because the Land Ordinance of 1785 provided for surveys by the federal government; moreover, the Northwest Ordinance of 1787 forbade slavery in the area. Lincoln's parents belonged to a faction of the Baptist church that disapproved of slavery, and this affiliation may account for Abraham's later statement that he was "naturally anti-slavery" and >>>could not remember when he "did not so think, and feel."<<<
-----------------
Probably the most striking quotes from Lincoln are those where he depicts slaveowners as the most repugnant of all human beings.
The slave-breeders and slave-traders, are a small, odious and detested class, among you; and yet in politics, they dictate the course of all of you, and are as completely your masters, as you are the master of your own negroes.
--August 24, 1855 Letter to Joshua Speed
Others, also from http://showcase.netins.net/web/creative/lincoln/speeches/quotes.htm
If as the friends of colonization hope, the present and coming generations of our countrymen shall by any means, succeed in freeing our land from the dangerous presence of slavery; and, at the same time, in restoring a captive people to their long-lost father-land, with bright prospects for the future; and this too, so gradually, that neither races nor individuals shall have suffered by the change, it will indeed be a glorious consummation.
--July 6, 1852 Eulogy on Henry Clay
Slavery is founded in the selfishness of man's nature -- opposition to it is in his love of justice. These principles are an eternal antagonism; and when brought into collision so fiercely, as slavery extension brings them, shocks, and throes, and convulsions must ceaselessly follow. Repeal the Missouri Compromise -- repeal all compromises -- repeal the declaration of independence -- repeal all past history, you still can not repeal human nature. It still will be the abundance of man's heart, that slavery extension is wrong; and out of the abundance of his heart, his mouth will continue to speak.
--October 16, 1854 Speech at Peoria
The Autocrat of all the Russias will resign his crown, and proclaim his subjects free republicans sooner than will our American masters voluntarily give up their slaves.
--August 15, 1855 Letter to George Robertson
You know I dislike slavery; and you fully admit the abstract wrong of it.
--August 24, 1855 Letter to Joshua Speed
The slave-breeders and slave-traders, are a small, odious and detested class, among you; and yet in politics, they dictate the course of all of you, and are as completely your masters, as you are the master of your own negroes.
--August 24, 1855 Letter to Joshua Speed
I believe this Government cannot endure, permanently half slave and half free. I do not expect the Union to be dissolved -- I do not expect the house to fall -- but I do expect it will cease to be divided.
--June 16, 1858 House Divided Speech
I have always hated slavery, I think as much as any Abolitionist.
--July 10, 1858 Speech at Chicago
Now I confess myself as belonging to that class in the country who contemplate slavery as a moral, social and political evil...
--October 7, 1858 Debate at Galesburg, Illinois
He [Stephen Douglas] is blowing out the moral lights around us, when he contends that whoever wants slaves has a right to hold them; that he is penetrating, so far as lies in his power, the human soul, and eradicating the light of reason and the love of liberty, when he is in every possible way preparing the public mind, by his vast influence, for making the institution of slavery perpetual and national.
--October 7, 1858 Lincoln-Douglas Debate at Galesburg, Illinois
When Judge Douglas says that whoever, or whatever community, wants slaves, they have a right to have them, he is perfectly logical if there is nothing wrong in the institution; but if you admit that it is wrong, he cannot logically say that anybody has a right to do wrong.
--October 13, 1858 Debate at Quincy, Illinois
This is a world of compensations; and he who would be no slave, must consent to have no slave.
--April 6, 1859 Letter to Henry Pierce
Now what is Judge Douglas' Popular Sovereignty? It is, as a principle, no other than that, if one man chooses to make a slave of another man, neither that other man nor anybody else has a right to object.
--September 16, 1859 Speech in Columbus, Ohio
An inspection of the Constitution will show that the right of property in a slave in not "distinctly and expressly affirmed" in it.
--February 27, 1860 Speech at the Cooper Institute
We believe that the spreading out and perpetuity of the institution of slavery impairs the general welfare. We believe -- nay, we know, that that is the only thing that has ever threatened the perpetuity of the Union itself.
--September 17, 1859 Speech in Cincinnati, Ohio
Let there be no compromise on the question of extending slavery. If there be, all our labor is lost, and, ere long, must be done again.
--December 10, 1860 Letter to Lyman Trumbull
You think slavery is right and ought to be extended; while we think it is wrong and ought to be restricted. That I suppose is the rub. It certainly is the only substantial difference between us.
--December 22, 1860 Letter to Alexander Stephens
I say now, however, as I have all the while said, that on the territorial question -- that is, the question of extending slavery under the national auspices, -- I am inflexible. I am for no compromise which assists or permits the extension of the institution on soil owned by the nation.
--February 1, 1861 Letter to William H. Seward
One section of our country believes slavery is right, and ought to be extended, while the other believes it is wrong, and ought not to be extended.
--March 4, 1861 Inaugural Address
I am naturally anti-slavery. If slavery is not wrong, nothing is wrong. I can not remember when I did not so think, and feel. And yet I have never understood that the Presidency conferred upon me an unrestricted right to act officially upon this judgment and feeling.
--April 4, 1864 Letter to Albert Hodges
One eighth of the whole population were colored slaves, not distributed generally over the Union, but localized in the Southern part of it. These slaves constituted a peculiar and powerful interest. All knew that this interest was, somehow, the cause of the war.
--March 4, 1865 Inaugural Address
On the question of liberty, as a principle, we are not what we have been. When we were the political slaves of King George, and wanted to be free, we called the maxim that "all men are created equal" a self evident truth; but now when we have grown fat, and have lost all dread of being slaves ourselves, we have become so greedy to be masters that we call the same maxim "a self evident lie."
--August 15, 1855 Letter to George Robertson
I leave you, hoping that the lamp of liberty will burn in your bosoms until there shall no longer be a doubt that all men are created free and equal.
--July 10, 1858 Speech at Chicago, Illinois
Our reliance is in the love of liberty which God has planted in our bosoms. Our defense is in the preservation of the spirit which prizes liberty as the heritage of all men, in all lands, everywhere.
--September 11, 1858 Speech at Edwardsville, Illinois
This is a world of compensations; and he who would be no slave, must consent to have no slave. Those who deny freedom to others, deserve it not for themselves; and, under a just God, can not long retain it.
--April 6, 1859 Letter to Henry Pierce
I have never had a feeling politically that did not spring from the sentiments embodied in the Declaration of Independence.
--February 22, 1861 Address in Independence Hall
I have here stated my purpose according to my view of official duty; and I intend no modification of my oft-expressed personal wish that all men everywhere could be free.
--August 22, 1862 Letter to Horace Greeley
In giving freedom to the slave, we assure freedom to the free -- honorable alike in what we give, and what we preserve. We shall nobly save, or meanly lose, the last best, hope of earth.
--December 1, 1862 Message to Congress
Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.
--November 19, 1863 Gettysburg Address
The world has never had a good definition of the word liberty, and the American people, just now, are much in want of one. We all declare for liberty; but in using the same word we do not all mean the same thing.
--April 18, 1864 Address at Baltimore
"We have, as all will agree, a free Government, where every man has a right to be equal with every other man. In this great struggle, this form of Government and every form of human right is endangered if our enemies succeed."
--August 22, 1864 Speech to the One Hundred Sixty-fourth Ohio Regiment
Every advocate of slavery naturally desires to see blasted, and crushed, the liberty promised the black man by the new constitution.
--November 14, 1864 Letter to Stephen A. Hurlbut
AmIndHistoryAuthor
Banned
Again, this is ASB.
Lincoln's father specifically avoided living in the south because like any human with any decency, slavery is morally repugnant.
And even if Lincoln had grown up there, RP compares his attitude to Jefferson. Jefferson would not have sanctioned rebellion and esp treason for the sake of defending a system he found morally repugnant, though he couldn't bring himself to take no part.
A lot of TTL reminds me of the vicious rumor spread by other Confederate apologists, that Lincoln supposedly owned slaves himself. It's ridiculous and ASB.
There's also the other flaw not mentioned yet:
Whose to say Lincoln's father, living in the south, wouldn't have stayed a small farmer? And thus more than likely become one of the many poor white farmers who stayed loyal, opposed slavery, opposed the CSA as a wealthy elite they had nothing in common with, and refused to commit treason?
Lincoln as a pro Union guerilla leader in the south is something far far more plausible.
So the POD isn't so much the move to Missouri, but that Abe's father belongs to a more pro-slavery faction of baptists.
Likely, maybe, maybe not, but far from ASB.
GO SOUTH, YOUNG MAN
PART TWO...MARCH TO DECEMBER 1861
PART TWO...MARCH TO DECEMBER 1861
March 1861, continued.--In Montgomery, Alexander H. Stephens of Georgia, a long-time friend of President Lincoln, is selected as Vice President of the Confederacy. President Lincoln selects his Cabinet….
Secretary of State: Judah P. Benjamin of Louisiana
Secretary of War: Jefferson F. Davis of Mississippi (who, despite wanting a military command, is persuaded by his friend, President Lincoln, to accept the post).
Secretary of the Treasury: Christopher G. Memminger of South Carolina
Secretary of the Navy: Stephen R. Mallory of Florida
Attorney General: Leroy P. Walker of Alabama
Postmaster General: John H. Reagan of Texas
Meanwhile, the incoming President of the United States, William Seward, is faced with a mounting crisis over the status of federal fortresses at Fort Sumter, South Carolina, and Fort Pickens, Florida. Outgoing President Buchanan had ordered the forts not be abandoned, but he had not reinforced or resupplied them either after an attempt to resupply Fort Sumter in January had encountered warning shots fired by South Carolina militia. Major Anderson, in command of Fort Sumter, had sent messages stating that without resupply, he would be forced to surrender the fort within a month.
At the first Cabinet meeting held after his inauguration, Seward made his own position clear. While he would defend the Union by force if necessary, he would go to nearly any length to avoid a civil war, which in his opinion would be, next to disunion itself, the worst possible calamity for the nation. Seward stated that he would, in certain circumstances, advocate the use of force. But he "would not provoke war in any way now." The fundamental question for Seward was how to restore the Union by a peaceful policy that would not provoke civil war.
Seward's solution is to allow the secession crisis to subside by avoiding new provocations. He believes that Southerners are fundamentally devoted to the Union, but this sentiment had temporarily been silenced by fears associated his own election as President. He argues that conciliatory policies, by denying to the disunionists new offenses, would permit loyal southerners to regain their governments and restore the Union. For evidence of the beneficial effects of conciliation, Seward pointed to the stalling of secessionist momentum after the initial surge. Seward especially emphasizes the good effect of conciliatory measures on the upper South, whose continued loyalty would help patriots in the deep South return to the Union. “Time must be given for reason to resume its sway,” he argues fervently. “Time will do this, if it be not hindered by new alarms and provocations."
Therefore, when U.S. Congress passes the Corwin Amendment…which would protect slavery, where it then existed, in perpetuity and prevent the federal government from ever interfering with it…and sends it to the States for ratification, Seward supports it. When Confederate peace commissioners are, shortly thereafter, sent to Washington to resolve the ongoing crisis regarding the status of Fort Sumter and Fort Pickens, Seward agrees to meet with them. On March 31, he orders the evacuation of Forts Sumter and Pickens.
April 1861--Union naval vessels are allowed to evacuate the garrisons of Forts Sumter and Pickens. Confederate commissioners in Washington offer that the Confederacy should pay for all Federal property which has been seized since the secession, in exchange for a recognition of Confederate independence. Seward balks at this, however, as he still intends to restore the Union, and the talks break down.
The breakdown of the talks convinces Confederate President Lincoln that war remains a distinct possibility. He therefore dispatches purchasing agents to Britain, France, and other European countries to purchase arms and equipment for the Confederate armed forces. Secretary of State Benjamin, at Lincoln’s order, also dispatches Robert Toombs of Georgia as ambassador to Great Britain, and Duncan Kenner of Louisiana as ambassador to France, where they are to seek recognition of the Confederacy by these powerful European nations. Lincoln, in a canny move, instructs them to not emphasize the slavery issue with regard to explanations of why the seceded States left the Union. Instead, they are to emphasize the Morrill Tariff, which was passed in early 1861, and arguments as to the legality of secession (in OTL, Confederate diplomats in Europe did emphasize the slavery issue to a certain degree, which contributed to the reluctance of the British government in particular to grant early recognition).
Meanwhile, the States of the Upper South, which did not secede from the Union, have made the decision not to do so by a much narrower margin than in OTL, because President Seward is perceived to be much more radical on the slavery issue than Abraham Lincoln was in OTL. In late April, representatives from these States hold a joint convention in which they pass the following resolutions…
RESOLVED, that we deplore the decision of the seceded States to leave the Union of States, and we urge them, at the earliest possible date, to reconsider said decision and to rejoin the Union of States.
RESOLVED, that we do not believe there is a legitimate power, granted by the Constitution, to coerce a State by armed force, and we therefore oppose, as tyrannical, any attempt to effect, by force, the reunion of the seceded States with the remainder of the Union of States.
President Seward recognizes that the Upper South is poised on the knife-edge of secession, and when these resolutions are announced, he issues a statement supporting them, in accordance with his policy of allowing time for “reason to be restored.”
May 1861--Caleb Huse, Confederate Purchasing Agent in Britain, sets up contracts for large numbers of Enfield Rifles, cannon, ammunition, and other military supplies. Agents in France and other countries do likewise. Confederate President Lincoln sends another commission to treat with President Seward. Seward, once again, agrees to meet with them. Seward once again refuses recognition of the independence of the Confederate States. Talks continue, however.
June 1861--President Seward, alarmed by reports of the arms contracts which have been concluded between the Confederacy and firms in several European nations, as well as of reports which indicate that Confederate diplomacy is pushing Britain and France closer toward recognizing the independence of the seceded States, orders his own purchasing agents and diplomats to counter these activities as much as possible. Because the European nations have not officially recognized the independence of the Confederacy, and since, unlike in OTL, the Confederacy has not been granted “belligerent” status since there is no war, they are persuaded to abrogate some of the arms contracts concluded with the Confederacy. But not all of them, and a steady flow of munitions will come into the Confederacy over the upcoming months. Seward breaks off talks with the Confederate commissioners.
Meanwhile, President Lincoln makes a speech in which he states his fervent hope that a peaceful separation may be achieved. But, he says, the Confederacy will defend it’s independence if attacked. The final, and most memorable, passages of the address appear below.
Republics have always, heretofore, ended in anarchy, which leads, inexorably, to tyranny. The institutions of the Old Union have not exercised on the Old World the salutary and liberating influence which ought to have belonged to them, as a result. Allow us to go in peace, our Northern brethren, and so provide the shining example that Republics can indeed, resolve their internal conflicts without resort to tyranny, and without devolving into anarchy.
In your hands, my former countrymen at the North, and not in mine, is the momentous issue of war. This Confederacy will not assail you. You can have no conflict without being yourselves the aggressors. Our secession has not destroyed your government, and we wish you the best as we depart from our former union with you. You have no oath registered in Heaven to destroy our legitimate government, while I shall have the most solemn one to "preserve, protect, and defend it."
We are not enemies, but friends. We must not be enemies. Though passion may have strained, it must not break our bonds of affection. I am confident that the mystic chords of memory, stretching from every battle-field, and patriot grave, to every living heart and hearth-stone, all over this broad land, when they are, as they will surely be, touched by the better angels of our nature, will yet remind you that secession is a right enshrined in the very Declaration of Independence itself, and lead you to see it, as we do, not as the destruction but as the redemption of Democracy. God bless both of our American Republics. May they live together in peace, forever.
July 1861--President Seward is coming to realize that the longer he delays in taking action to halt the flow of arms and munitions into the Confederacy, the more likely it is that the European powers will take it a sign of weakness on the part of the Federal Government and recognize the independence of the seceded States. Therefore, he declares that the ports of the South are closed, and orders the U.S. Navy to intercept ships going into those ports. He does not declare a “blockade,” which would grant “belligerent” status to the South. He hopes that this still somewhat moderate action will not provoke war, while still asserting the federal government’s claim to sovereignty over the seceding States. He also, in the same speech, reiterates both his commitment to reunification and his desire for peace.
President Lincoln, upon hearing of Seward’s action, is delighted. He knows that his diplomats in Europe have been making much headway in discussions with the British and French governments, and Seward’s action might well push them over the edge toward recognition.
August 1861--A British steamer, whose captain had sailed before learning of the closure of Southern ports by President Seward, is stopped near Charleston, South Carolina, by a U.S. warship, the USS San Jacinto. A British warship happens upon the scene, and orders the San Jacinto to “cease this act of piracy and withdraw.” Captain Charles Wilkes, commanding the San Jacinto, refuses, and the British ship fires a warning shot across the San Jacinto’s bow. Wilkes, a hothead, replies by firing a warning shot of his own, and orders the British vessel to depart from “American territorial waters” (they are actually in international waters). The British commander gives one final warning, and then opens fire on the San Jacinto. Wilkes returns fire, but the U.S. ship is severely outgunned, and Wilkes is forced to strike his colors. The San Jacinto is taken as a prize into Bermuda.
Tennessee, North Carolina, Virginia, and Kentucky secede from the Union in protest at Seward’s closure of the southern ports, which they see as the prelude to an invasion of the South, despite Seward’s protestations to the contrary. Arkansas, Missouri and Maryland also hold secession conventions. They narrowly vote to remain in the Union, but a warning is issued that any further provocations will lead to secession. The newly seceded states apply for admission to the Confederacy, and are accepted.
September 1861--News of the “brazen assault” on a U.S. Navy ship by a British man-of-war creates a huge controversy in the U.S. President Seward, who has himself argued that a war between the United States and Britain might lead to an outpouring of patriotism which would convince the Southern States to return to the Union, feeds the furor with several speeches in which he denounces “perfidious Albion” and it’s “malignant hostility to our American Democracy.” He sends a rude and presumptuous ultimatum to Britain, demanding an abject apology and exorbitant reparations. Lord Palmerston’s government, of course, rejects these demands, and shortly thereafter, recognizes the independence of the Confederate States.
October 1861--The government of Emperor Napoleon III of France recognizes the independence of the Confederate States. The “San Jacinto Controversy” continues, as diplomats of the U.S. and Britain negotiate, attempting to avoid war. News of the “impertinent and insulting” ultimatum from the U.S. to Britain is leaked to British newspapers, stirring up war fever in Britain. Lord Palmerston orders British naval vessels to escort British merchant ships into southern harbors.
November 1861--To his horror, President Seward is coming to realize that the expected outpouring of anti-British feeling in the seceded States is not materializing. Indeed, the Union is being seen as the aggressor in the affair, and the British as merely protecting their rights to trade with the Confederacy. Now he is faced with the imminent prospect of war with Britain, and possibly the Confederacy as well. He decides to backpedal with regard to the British, and send a revised, and much more contrite, request for an apology and reparations to end the crisis between the two nations. But before he can do so, there are several clashes between U.S. Navy squadrons enforcing the port closure order, and British vessels escorting merchantmen into southern ports.
December 1861--The governments of Great Britain and France issue a joint ultimatum demanding that the United States lift it’s order closing Southern ports, and recognize the independence of the Confederate States. President Seward rejects this demand. On Christmas Eve, 1861, Britain and France declare war on the United States.
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Exactly. I knew that one of the Unionist trolls on the board who seem to inhabit every single thread related to the Civil War would jump in on this, and AmIndHistoryAuthor (one of the most virulent of these) did not disappoint. But the fact is that the TL is not about the OTL Lincoln. It is about an alternate Lincoln who grew up in a completely different culture and way of life. Even if I granted that the OTL Abe Lincoln was a virtual saint and absolute humanitarian with no personal agenda of his own, and a dedicated abolitionist who hated slavery with every fiber of his soul, and was committed to seeing it end as soon as possible, it would be irrelevant to the timeline, unless one is positing that being pro- or anti-slavery in antebellum times was a function of genetics rather than of environment and upbringing. Honestly, I often wonder if some of the people on this board really understand the concept of ALTERNATE history?
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Let me just say, as someone who is definitely more 'pro-union' in sentiment, that I've really enjoyed this TL so far.
Compared to some of the things posted on these boards, it's not exactly ASB to have a man switch opinion about something, even something as divisive as slavery.
As long as this TL doesn't go all revisionary like that 'other' CSA TL that was posted recently, things should be fine.
Compared to some of the things posted on these boards, it's not exactly ASB to have a man switch opinion about something, even something as divisive as slavery.
As long as this TL doesn't go all revisionary like that 'other' CSA TL that was posted recently, things should be fine.
Does this mean that Arkansas did secede, and that just Missouri and Maryland stayed in the union, or did all three stay?
Enjoying this very much.
I'm glad you are enjoying it.
Which timeline was that? I haven't been keeping up with everything on here, unfortunately.
I want to see America not only win against UK and France, but add some Canadian land.
No, really.
If that isn't possible, just don't give them ALL the border states and such.
Who do I look like, Harry Harrison???
very nice.
things look bad for the US, and pretty good for the CSA.
you never saw the cover for Gandhi 2: reloaded have you?
Yes, because heaven forbid if an Alternate Abraham Lincoln was different from OTL's counterpart.
missing the point of Alternate History, eh?
things look bad for the US, and pretty good for the CSA.
you never saw the cover for Gandhi 2: reloaded have you?
Yes, because heaven forbid if an Alternate Abraham Lincoln was different from OTL's counterpart.
missing the point of Alternate History, eh?
mowque
Banned
very nice.
things look bad for the US, and pretty good for the CSA.
you never saw the cover for Gandhi 2: reloaded have you?
You mean this? - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfvLcozLwtE
Honestly, I often wonder if some of the people on this board really understand the concept of ALTERNATE history?
Yes, because heaven forbid if an Alternate Abraham Lincoln was different from OTL's counterpart.
missing the point of Alternate History, eh?
Great minds think alike.
Great minds think alike.
Don't insult yourself like that.
You're much greater than I am.
Excellent timeline, robertp! I'm looking forward to seeing you continue it.
I'm probably one of the most pro-Lincoln people on this board and even I know a butterfly when I see one.
I'm probably one of the most pro-Lincoln people on this board and even I know a butterfly when I see one.
I'd like to second (or third or fourth) the support for the plausibility of this alt-Lincoln and for the continuation of this interesting TL. Keep it up!