GM sells the Pontiac brand in 2009

Except that starting with the L-Series the Spring Hill plant became fully integrated into the GM Assembly Division and was no longer Saturn-exclusive. Not saying that it's impossible
Penske OTL bought Saturn from GM, then bailed once they could get no manufacturing plants. Getting Pontiac at the same time solves that problem, with the bonus if Doraville could be spun up again as well as Wilmington. Holden is a bonus for the Commodore at Elizabeth and Engines from Port Melbourne, but isn't required.
 
Penske OTL bought Saturn from GM, then bailed once they could get no manufacturing plants.

Having the Stronachs (Magna) purchase Saturn in that case would have been better since they already have assembly facilities which could be converted into building actual vehicles instead of just parts, and hence would solve that problem.
 
Skylark, with the High Performance Package called the Stage 1 or GTX!
I like the idea, but I'm dubious about calling it either. IMO, unless it's got serious performance, you've debased the terms. You'd better be able to smoke a GN Regal before you call it a Stage 1.
 
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In 2008-2009, Renault had views on the Chrysler or Saturn brand to sell its own models. Maybe it could do the forcing to have Pontiac? And Pontiac may be the US Renault brand, like Samsung in Korea. After that, it could remember Renault and AMC in the 80's.
 
In 2008-2009, Renault had views on the Chrysler or Saturn brand to sell its own models. Maybe it could do the forcing to have Pontiac? And Pontiac may be the US Renault brand, like Samsung in Korea. After that, it could remember Renault and AMC in the 80's.

Renault Pontiacs?! Weird combination, but then again so was Fiat and Dodge and it seems to be working out ok.
What kind of models could have developed in this ATL? Any RWD models based on Nissan platforms?
 
What kind of models could have developed in this ATL?

Well, some of the Samsung models could easily find a spot as family cars in the Pontiac lineup. Their take on a sedan version of the Mégane, for example. If it was Pontiac+Saturn, it could be even more interesting - Saturn could function as a sales channel for Dacia plus the famous polymer panels, while Pontiac could function as a Renault equivalent. Any sporty models would be contingent on relaunching Alpine in Europe as well as turning the motorsport division loose.
 
It seems to me that Pontiac could've been stronger had they had the Firebird relaunch alongside the Camaro. The Solstice was a good car and I think the two of them (complimented by some sedans and maybe the Torrent) would've at least made Pontiac stronger and then hopefully Buick would've become a Chinese only brand.
 
It seems to me that Pontiac could've been stronger had they had the Firebird relaunch alongside the Camaro. The Solstice was a good car and I think the two of them (complimented by some sedans and maybe the Torrent) would've at least made Pontiac stronger and then hopefully Buick would've become a Chinese only brand.

And maybe throw in a 4door GTO to fight the Charger (if it’s not too sacrilegious to use that name on a 4 door)
 
And maybe throw in a 4door GTO to fight the Charger (if it’s not too sacrilegious to use that name on a 4 door)
It'd be Meh

You're talking about the Holden VY, already badged as the Lumina SS outside the USA
2007_chevrolet_lumina_1430129467146182208.jpg
 
A big question is if they keep the Bonneville around. Would it be a Holden Caprice or something designed here? I think GM would be lazy and rebadge the Caprice.
 
It'd be Meh

You're talking about the Holden VY, already badged as the Lumina SS outside the USA

No that’s not what I had in mind. I didn’t mean slapping the GTO badge on the OTL G8. Something with wider nostrils, more mean looking. It can still be based on the Zeta platform but it wouldn’t be a direct Commodore rebadge.
 
It seems to me that Pontiac could've been stronger had they had the Firebird relaunch alongside the Camaro.

Actually, no it would not. At that point in time doing such a blatant rebadging would not have worked as well as could be expected (particularly as by that point most Pontiacs were basically rebadged Chevys, with some exceptions like the Vibe, which was a rebadged Toyota). At that point people could have sensed (if not already knew) that Pontiac was in trouble and GM was desperate to do something, hence the revamp mid-decade (plus the Wave and Pursuit in Canada and the Daewoo derivatives in Mexico). But a Firebird relaunch was ruled out, not when GM is trying to shut it down (or sell it off if there was a suitable buyer).

Now, that's not to say that that would rule out the Firebird completely. As I said earlier, if we take the Renault route for Pontiac's survival then what would be needed would a revival of the Alpine brand in Europe to provide a steady stream of high-end vehicles like the Firebird with a base from which it could be modified for North American conditions. In this sense Pontiac would play a dual role - one, as the family brand, which would allow Renault vehicles to have another route to North America outside of the bits and pieces in Nissan vehicles, and another (probably via GXP and GTO sub-brands or "collections") which would attract the youthful/sporty set and thus also be our Renault Sport/Alpine equivalents. For example, the recently-revived Alpine A110 could work as a decent base for a Firebird:
800px-Alpine_A110_en_Angleterre_Aout_2018.jpg

Add the G8/GTO clip to that et voilà. (And for the Québec market Renault could use the services of the advertising agency responsible for VW's "Tasse-toi, mon oncle!" campaign for the Golf GTI for the Firebird.) The only complication here would be Mexico, since Renault already exists in that market, so Pontiac would be limited to the high-end (Alpine-esque) models only for the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fresa]fresa[/url] set.

For the US and Canada, therefore, I could see the following (based on the current models) as an example:
*Pontiac G1 = Renault Twingo and Renault Wind (Canada only)
*Pontiac G2/G3 = Renault Clio (in Canada's case, the G2 is the spiritual revival of the Nissan Micra; in the US's case, the G2 is a partial replacement for the Vibe, as would the closer-in-size G4)
*Pontiac G4/G5 = Renault Mégane (except sedan), Samsung SM3 (sedan)
*Pontiac G6 = Samsung SM5 (Renault Latitude/Safrane, which is treated as an executive car there) [this would be a replacement for both the old G6/Grand Am as well as the lower end of the Grand Prix]
*Pontiac G7 = Samsung SM7 [this would be replacement for both the upper ends of the Grand Prix and the entirety of the Bonneville]
There's also the Captur (Pontiac QM3) and Koleos (Pontiac QM5) crossovers, plus the Pontiac Scenic and Grand Scenic MPVs (no Trans Sport/Montana for you here), and the new Twizy electric car. Only the Torrent would be troublesome to replace within the Renault stable, which would mean either rebadging from Nissan's Pathfinder (which itself would undergo replacement within a couple of years) or source the replacement from Suzuki via stretching the (Grand) Vitara/Escudo (and probably even adopting the Escudo name and reviving the XL-7 concept for this purpose). Some iconic Pontiac names would be recycled for purposes of rebadging Alpine vehicles for sale in North America (and it's these models which would be the only Pontiacs sold in Mexico). We've already established that one of them - the A110 - would be used for the Firebird (and based on OTL would currently be the only vehicle which would fit); in TTL, this could mean the revival of other models, such as the Alpine GTA/A610, that could also be sold as Pontiacs in North America and hence bring back some of the old model names. The GTO in this case could even harken back to the 1999 concept car for design inspiration while still on an Alpine base.

Just one possible idea.
 
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GarethC

Donor
SAIC co-owns Daewoo with GM and in 2005 has just lost MG Rover to Nanjing.

Acquiring the Pontiac badge would enlarge their access to the North American market - probably with rebadged Daewoos and SsangYongs in the first instance - but it doesn't feel like a spur-of-the-moment decision. Acquiring a loss-making marque should be part of a long-term go-to-market strategy, not trying to snap up something in a fire sale.

Not sure what if any extant production they'd want to take on otherwise. Might slow down the merger with Nanjing in 2007 as well.

Also not sure that GM really wants to enable such a competitor in that market, to be honest.
 
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