Gleiwitz incident - Operation Himmler

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1citizen

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I didn't find any authentic document which attests that the August 1939 Gleiwitz incident(part of what some are today calling it 'Operation Himmler') was indeed ordered by(or at least foreknown to) Heinrich Himmler, Reinhard Heydrich or Heinrich Müller, other than the Nürnberg testimonies of Alfred Naujocks and Erwin von Lahousen.
About those witnesses:
  • Alfred Naujocks - deserted and surrendered to the Allies in October 1944
  • Erwin von Lahousen - heard from Canaris about the attack at Gleiwitz; he participated together with Wilhelm Canaris in the 20 July 1944 plot against Hitler
  • Wilhelm Canaris was collaborating with Ewald von Kleist-Schmenzin who secretly discussed with British MI6 the plots against Hitler, since 1938.
Even more, as a strange oddity that came with the peace evangelized by the Allies, Naujocks-'The Man Who Started the War' as it is called by many historians, became a business man after the war.
So, there could be some questions:
Was Himmler aware that an 'Operation Himmler' using his name was in progress in 1939 ?
Was the Gleiwitz incident planned and put in scene by those anti-Nazi(undercover as Nazi) witnesses and the British MI6 ? (then they blamed Himmler & Co. for the event and their fake story appealed to the public and maybe to the American Court at Nürnberg, since they were blaming the Nazis, the scapegoat of that moment)
 

Cook

Banned
Was the Gleiwitz incident planned and put in scene by those anti-Nazi(undercover as Nazi) witnesses and the British MI6 ? (then they blamed Himmler & Co. for the event and their fake story appealed to the public and maybe to the American Court at Nürnberg, since they were blaming the Nazis, the scapegoat of that moment)

If you are trying to promote a Conspiracy Theory you have come to the wrong place.
 
Was the Gleiwitz incident planned and put in scene by those anti-Nazi(undercover as Nazi) witnesses and the British MI6 ? (then they blamed Himmler & Co. for the event and their fake story appealed to the public and maybe to the American Court at Nürnberg, since they were blaming the Nazis, the scapegoat of that moment)

oh no it was not. and speculating in those areas lies dangerously close to conspiracy thinking. the Gleiwitz incident was just a bad attempt to gain a casus belli by Germany, not an anti-nazi brittish conspiracy...
 

Cook

Banned
Very well, the bulk of the evidence for Operation Himmler (entirely a nickname, the operation never had an official name), or Canned Goods as it was also called came from Naujocks himself during the trial at Nuremburg. That the written documentation of the operation is next to nil is hardly surprising; the operation was a Nazi False Flag and Naujocks’ orders were verbal from Reynard Heydrich himself. Apparently there is documentation for the requisition of the concentration camp prisoners whose bodies were presented to journalists as ‘the German soldiers murdered by the Poles’; in the documents the prisoners are referred to as 'Canned Goods', hence the other name.

It wasn’t Naujocks’ first or last clandestine operation; he’d been involved in moving explosives into Slovakia and ‘creating incidents’ there in late 1938, early 1939 and was involved with the operations against the Dutch border on 10 May 1940 that involved German troops dressed as Dutch border guards.

Naujocks was awaiting his own trial for war crimes in 1946 when he escaped custody and went underground.

Was Himmler aware that an 'Operation Himmler' using his name was in progress in 1939 ?

So yes, we can be confident that Himmler was fully aware of Heydrich’s orders and the operation; while Heydrich no doubt had the authority to get hold of some Concentration Camp prisoners and dispose of them, he would not have been risking not only his own career but also possibly Germany’s plans for the invasion of Poland by acting unilaterally. Himmler probably didn’t know that it was being called ‘Operation Himmler’ by some since it was not an official name; he wouldn’t have been amused if he’d found out.

Was the Gleiwitz incident planned and put in scene by those anti-Nazi(undercover as Nazi) witnesses and the British MI6 ?

I do not take enough illicit pharmaceuticals for such a fucking stupid idea to appeal even in the slightest, so I can’t be bothered to explain in further detail than that such a proposal makes no sense.

...the peace evangelized by the Allies...

Ri-ight.
 
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To clarify, if the Gleiwitz incident was staged by British intelligence, the Nazis were therefore invading a Poland that they legitimately believed was an aggressor? Do you believe the Nazis would not have invaded Poland if they didn't believe they were being attacked?
 

1citizen

Banned
That the written documentation of the operation is next to nil is hardly surprising; the operation was a Nazi False Flag and Naujocks’ orders were verbal from Reynard Heydrich himself.
That is why Naujocks' declarations can be a serious point of doubt.

Naujocks was awaiting his own trial for war crimes in 1946 when he escaped custody and went underground.
I guess the Allies must have guarded him so little at Nuremberg, for such an essential witness like him to evade.

he would not have been risking not only his own career
There were people that risked even their lives for far bigger plots, such as the 20 July plot.
Some of them escaped notice(Lahousen), some of them didn't(Canaris, Schmenzin).
 

Cook

Banned
Do you believe the Nazis would not have invaded Poland if they didn't believe they were being attacked?
1253637441-admiral_ackbar.jpg


:D
 
I guess the bombing at Tarnow rail station and the raid at the tunnel at Jabłonków also was staged by the brittish agents. Damn! :p
 

Cook

Banned
That is why Naujocks' declarations can be a serious point of doubt.
There is no point of doubt; the Nazis were keen on such gimmicks, planning them before the invasions of Austria and Czechoslovakia, for which the documented evidence is extensive. Nor was the attack on the radio station of particular importance, most of the propaganda campaign against the Poles was conducted by Goebbels’ Propaganda Ministry and consisted in many cases of cut-and-paste copies of stories that appeared in German newspapers prior to the Sudeten Crisis. William L. Shirer, who was a newspaper correspondent in Berlin at the time, recalled spotting the exact same stories being repeated, only the dates and locations had been changed.
I guess the Allies must have guarded him so little at Nuremberg, for such an essential witness like him to evade.
At the time of his escape he was no longer a witness, he was awaiting his own trial. Nor was he ever an essential or high priority witness or defendant; he never attained a higher rank than SS-Stormbannfuhrer (major) and the details of the attack on the radio station was little more than a footnote for either the prosecution or the defence at the main Nuremburg trials; it was after all just a gimmick.
There were people that risked even their lives for far bigger plots, such as the 20 July plot.
Cui Bono: to whose benefit? Since the only possible beneficiary of this bit of arse-hattery was the Nazis it is a non-starter.
 
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This just in: the Gleiwitz incident was faked by the MI6, funded by the gay illuminati branch of the Rotschild bank, using a freemason IRA cell infiltrated in the NKVD as a proxy. This means WWII was invalid. Everybody please return to the state he was in August 31 1939: we need a do-over.
 

1citizen

Banned
To clarify, if the Gleiwitz incident was staged by British intelligence, the Nazis were therefore invading a Poland that they legitimately believed was an aggressor?
If indeed that was the staging, then maybe some of the high rank Nazis only perceived that which looked like a Polish aggression, though both those Nazis and the Poles didn't know that a group wanted very much to put them against each other, and immediately start a war.

Do you believe the Nazis would not have invaded Poland if they didn't believe they were being attacked?
If some group really felt the need for a war during those times, probably it would have happened sooner or later, given that group's ardent belligerent needs, but the case of a total unjustified attack would have clearly pointed the guilt for the war.
 
This just in: the Gleiwitz incident was faked by the MI6, funded by the gay illuminati branch of the Rotschild bank, using a freemason IRA cell infiltrated in the NKVD as a proxy. This means WWII was invalid. Everybody please return to the state he was in August 31 1939: we need a do-over.

You forgot about the Crab People.
 

sharlin

Banned
This just in: the Gleiwitz incident was faked by the MI6, funded by the gay illuminati branch of the Rotschild bank, using a freemason IRA cell infiltrated in the NKVD as a proxy. This means WWII was invalid. Everybody please return to the state he was in August 31 1939: we need a do-over.

Damn it I would so sig that if it wasn't so long!
 
This just in: the Gleiwitz incident was faked by the MI6, funded by the gay illuminati branch of the Rotschild bank, using a freemason IRA cell infiltrated in the NKVD as a proxy. This means WWII was invalid. Everybody please return to the state he was in August 31 1939: we need a do-over.

What? Not the jews? :D
 
If indeed that was the staging, then maybe some of the high rank Nazis only perceived that which looked like a Polish aggression, though both those Nazis and the Poles didn't know that a group wanted very much to put them against each other, and immediately start a war.


If some group really felt the need for a war during those times, probably it would have happened sooner or later, given that group's ardent belligerent needs, but the case of a total unjustified attack would have clearly pointed the guilt for the war.

Okay, got it. Not just a conspiracy theorist but a Nazi defender.

Bye bye. Don't come back.
 
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