Gettysburg WI

There's a much better opportunity to crush Lee at Antietam because of that river, too.

And the idea that McClellan was removed for being too bold...

Well, I'll put it this way: That would be the first time I've heard of it, from you or any other source.

"McClellan has the slows" is the quote that comes to mind. An acquaintance had this whole debate with me just a few days ago; I must say he convinced me that Meade did what a prudent commander, new to command of his force and having just fought a hard three days' battle, should have done.
 
Not quite. McClellan was removed because he had failed to cover Washington against Jackson's wing. In Lincoln's opinion McClellan's movements were too bold.

Perhaps in your time line.

In OTL, the Battle of Antietam was fought September 17th and McClellan was relieved on November 7th after over 7 weeks of not pursuing Lee. Halleck, in his report on McClellan's post-battle activities, said "The long inactivity of so large an army in the face of a defeated foe, and during the most favorable season for rapid movements and a vigorous campaign, was a matter of great disappointment and regret."http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Antietam#cite_note-66 Lincoln, who was normally very patient, telegraphed to McClellan that "I have just received your dispatch about sore-tongued and fatigued horses. Will you pardon me for asking what the horses of your army have done since the battle of Antietam that fatigues anything?"
 
Perhaps in your time line.

In OTL, the Battle of Antietam was fought September 17th and McClellan was relieved on November 7th after over 7 weeks of not pursuing Lee. Halleck, in his report on McClellan's post-battle activities, said "The long inactivity of so large an army in the face of a defeated foe, and during the most favorable season for rapid movements and a vigorous campaign, was a matter of great disappointment and regret." Lincoln, who was normally very patient, telegraphed to McClellan that "I have just received your dispatch about sore-tongued and fatigued horses. Will you pardon me for asking what the horses of your army have done since the battle of Antietam that fatigues anything?"

Something that he should not have had to ask about.

There might be a point the Army of the Potomac's cavalry was in poor condition. But given McClellan's misuse of cavalry, "How?" is a question that needs to be asked by anyone in Lincoln's shoes. McClellan demanded more support in exchange for doing less than Lee, that is enough.

Meade post-Gettysburg...

I'd say in the particular circumstances at work, the Army of the Potomac was not in a position to do much more than Meade did with it. Maybe an attack when Meade called for a council of war would have worked, but it would have been dicey.
 

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There might be a point the Army of the Potomac's cavalry was in poor condition. But given McClellan's misuse of cavalry, "How?" is a question that needs to be asked by anyone in Lincoln's shoes. McClellan demanded more support in exchange for doing less than Lee, that is enough.

I wonder that Lincoln would have made of Jackson when he made very similar arguments to Lee about why he couldn't move in November 1862....

Of course, Davis's response to the hoof and mouth breaking out in the ANV (just after it broke out in the AoP) was the polar opposite of Lincoln's - every effort was made to get fresh horses to the army rather than indulging in a petulant epigram.
 
Of course, Davis's response to the hoof and mouth breaking out in the ANV (just after it broke out in the AoP) was the polar opposite of Lincoln's - every effort was made to get fresh horses to the army rather than indulging in a petulant epigram.

Actually, the main reason the AoNV got resupplied with horses appears to be due to their own efforts.

"The utmost vigilance on Lee's part, and Stuart's success in capturing some 1200 horses in Pennsylvania in October,8 scarcely sufficed to keep the wagons rolling and the cavalry in the field. The final exhaustion of the horse supply, which was destined to cripple the army in the winter of 1864-65, was ominously forecast as early as the autumn of 1862."


As to the epigram, it came after weeks of inaction by McClellan.


"The President directs that you cross the Potomac and give battle to the enemy or drive him south. Your army must move now while the roads are good..." Halleck, October 6th.


"My Dear Sir: - You remember my speaking to you of what I called your over-cautiousness. Are you not over-cautious when you assume that you cannot do what the enemy is constantly doing? Should you not claim to be at least his equal in prowess, and act upon the claim?


As I understand, you telegraphed General Halleck that you cannot subsist your army at Winchester unless the railroad from Harpers Ferry to that point be put in working order. But the enemy does now subsist his army at Winchester, at a distance nearly twice as great from railroad transportation as you would have to do, without the railroad last named ... I certainly should be pleased to have the advantage of the railroad from Harpers Ferry to Winchester; but it wastes all of the remaining autumn to give it to you, and, in fact, ignores the question of time, which cannot and must not be ignored."


"... you are now nearer Richmond than the enemy is, by the route that you can take and he must. Why can you not reach there before him, unless you admit that he is more than your equal on the march? His route is the arc of the circle, while yours is the chord ... I would press closely to him, fight him if a favorable opportunity should present, and at least try to beat him to Richmond. I say "try"; if we never try, we shall never succeed..." Lincoln, October 13th


Lincoln didn't send the epigram until October 25th, 5 weeks after the battle of Antietam.
 
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Lincoln didn't send the epigram until October 25th, 5 weeks after the battle of Antietam.

The typo hunter claims another trophy (typoed number fixed and underlined).

And calling Lincoln's pointed jab at McClellan's lack of activity petulant is just weird.

Interesting on the horse situation for the ANV. That it would be a problem so soon is telling about the weakness of the ANV in the areas that it needed to stay an effective army - just as McClellan demanding more supplies is telling about his attitudes.
 
The typo hunter claims another trophy (typoed number fixed and underlined).

Thanks for spotting it. Now corrected in my previous post.

Interesting on the horse situation for the ANV. That it would be a problem so soon is telling about the weakness of the ANV in the areas that it needed to stay an effective army - just as McClellan demanding more supplies is telling about his attitudes.

McClellan actually did need more horses due to the hoof and mouth outbreak. But since he'd always said he needed more everything before he could do anything, McClellan had become much like the boy who cried wolf.

Lee does stand in contrast. The CSA told him they'd have to start cutting rations, so he started acting as his own commissary. The CSA couldn't provide enough weapons or horses, so the AoNV used ones looted from the Union.
 
Thanks for spotting it. Now corrected in my previous post.

No problem.

McClellan actually did need more horses due to the hoof and mouth outbreak. But since he'd always said he needed more everything before he could do anything, McClellan had become much like the boy who cried wolf.

Lee does stand in contrast. The CSA told him they'd have to start cutting rations, so he started acting as his own commissary. The CSA couldn't provide enough weapons or horses, so the AoNV used ones looted from the Union.

Nothing to add here. But that part (underlined) coming home to roost makes it hard weighing how much he was still doing it.
 
McClellan actually did need more horses due to the hoof and mouth outbreak. But since he'd always said he needed more everything before he could do anything, McClellan had become much like the boy who cried wolf.

Lee does stand in contrast. The CSA told him they'd have to start cutting rations, so he started acting as his own commissary. The CSA couldn't provide enough weapons or horses, so the AoNV used ones looted from the Union.

So does Jackson, whose tendencies to march with complete disregard for his troops being human beings with human needs and fanatical, daring approach to war did bring him great victories. It also left both his corps and Jackson himself perpetually exhausted, his refusal to grant furloughs deepened animosity toward Jackson, and he turned over his command structure as often as Braxton Bragg did.

At the same time, he did win some of the most dramatic victories of any Confederate general.......
 
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