Getting around the Treaty of Versialles

[Winston Smith]

Let's say Hitler doesn't rise to power, Stresseman survives, blah de blah;

Would it have been possible for Germany to get around the restrictions of the Treaty of Versailles, ie; have naval aviation in the form of the Marinefliger instead of the Luftwaffe? Use heavily armed armoured cars instead of tanks?

 

[mowque]

Let's say Hitler doesn't rise to power, Stresseman survives, blah de blah;

Would it have been possible for Germany to get around the restrictions of the Treaty of Versailles, ie; have naval aviation in the form of the Marinefliger instead of the Luftwaffe? Use heavily armed armoured cars instead of tanks?

They were already doing that anyway.

 

[Beedok]

"Oh yes, those are these APC things we're working on, not tanks. Don't worry. Oh and those are anty-armour turrets. No, no, they just look like they could fit on the APC, but they really can't. Honest!"

 

[Kelenas]

As others already mentioned, Germany was already busy finding ways to get around the Versailles restrictions before the ink was dry.

There was extensive cooperation with the Soviet Union, for example, which was one of the reasons that later led to Stalin's purges (since he suspected that too many of his officers were sympathetic to the Germans).

- Kelenas

 

[Winston Smith]

Fair enough, I forgot about the Soviet/German cooperation. What would be the earliest date without Hitler when the Germans could begin to openly rearm?

 

[mowque]

Fair enough, I forgot about the Soviet/German cooperation. What would be the earliest date without Hitler when the Germans could begin to openly rearm?

The faster the USSR re-arms, the more likely the West starts to look the other way. We did it after WW2, much easier here.

 

[Beedok]

The faster the USSR re-arms, the more likely the West starts to look the other way. We did it after WW2, much easier here.

So the Germans quietly work with the USSR arming them and then get to arm themselves up front for it? Awesome!

 

[mowque]

So the Germans quietly work with the USSR arming them and then get to arm themselves up front for it? Awesome!

I know, it sounds stupid but one aspect is big geopolitics while the other is down to earth treaty workarounds.

 

[Winston Smith]

Thanks for the info guys. I'll file this away for future reference.

 

[imperialaquila]

I know the Nazis were looking at Von Braun's rockets initially as a means to get around the restrictions on artillery. I'm sure a non-Nazi Germany would have similar ideas.

 

[Uriel]

Let's say Hitler doesn't rise to power, Stresseman survives, blah de blah;

Would it have been possible for Germany to get around the restrictions of the Treaty of Versailles, ie; have naval aviation in the form of the Marinefliger instead of the Luftwaffe? Use heavily armed armoured cars instead of tanks?

Exactly your two examples are not possible: The VT covered all kinds of military aviation (specifically including naval) and all kinds of tanks, amored cars or similar.
(you might want to to look up the treaty online, the § concerning weapons aren't that long)

OTL there were many ways to circumvent the treaty including:
-in development tanks were initally classified as "tractors"
-cruisers were claimed to be inside the 10 000t limit, while they were actually at 12 000t
-private paramilitaries, possesing their own weapons (including artillery) that were just "in safekeeping" in military armories

And of course the allies weren't allways perfect (or even perfectly willing) in enforcing the VT.
They managed to overlook an 42cm howitzer at the end of WWI and the UK even directly approved Nazi Germany breaking the treaty:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-German_Naval_Agreement

 

[Super Parker Brothers]

The ship thing wasn't that big a deal as they could up the size and stay within the numbers. They did their training in Russia, had contacts with the Koumingtan, and until the Depression were looking wuite respectable. I can see them getting the Rhineland demilitarized, Saar reanned, Danzig reannexed, perhaps even union with Austria.

 

[Markus]

They were already doing that anyway.

And told the world so. That was sometime in 32. The navy was to get more pocket-BB, actual destroyers and ... submarines but numerically that was small potatoes compared to what was done after 1933.

 

[ferrosol]

Exactly your two examples are not possible: The VT covered all kinds of military aviation (specifically including naval) and all kinds of tanks, amored cars or similar.
(you might want to to look up the treaty online, the § concerning weapons aren't that long)

OTL there were many ways to circumvent the treaty including:
-in development tanks were initally classified as "tractors"
-cruisers were claimed to be inside the 10 000t limit, while they were actually at 12 000t
-private paramilitaries, possesing their own weapons (including artillery) that were just "in safekeeping" in military armories

And of course the allies weren't allways perfect (or even perfectly willing) in enforcing the VT.
They managed to overlook an 42cm howitzer at the end of WWI and the UK even directly approved Nazi Germany breaking the treaty:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-German_Naval_Agreement

Add in that there were plenty of Germans working for foreign firms who were building designs that looked suspiciously like upgraded German WWI equipment. I am thinking especially Fokker in Holland building warplanes and ? (forgot the name) in Sweden building submarines.