Getting Ahead of Ourselves: A B-29 TL
- Thread starter Parmenion
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The Soviets are nowhere close to a bomb, and even further away from a viable delivery system. I agree with locking down Oak Ridge, etc, but the last thing the US needs to do is to go on a “Scud hunt” for a non existent threat.
Keep using atomic bombs to hit periphery and logistical targets. At some point, it might make sense to use B-29s for a tactical Arc Light mission against a concentrated Soviet Tank Army.
The Western Allies have an overwhelming advantage here and just need to keep up the political will, and they will win.
Part 88- Writing on the Wall
Chelyabinsk, July 28th, 1945
Field Marshal Zhukov all but stomped out of the converted city hall, now the new Kremlin. Keitel, how I pity you Zhukov thought Was this the madness you endured for you long? Stalin was furious, that Zhukov could understand, he too, had toured the shelters of Moscow where entire families had been melted into eachother. What he didn't understand, was a single sentence that Stalin had spoken. It reminded him of those Disney propaganda films of the fuhrer, ranting nonsense to war weary generals.
What was the old man on about? Zhukov pondered. The first half hour had been nothing but complaints without purpose. Complaints about the jet program, complaints about the atomic program, complaints about Zhukov's own competancy. He'd even gone as far to complain about the honor of his soldiers, to which Zhukov could only reply with a glare that seemed to sober the man for a moment. Then it was more ranting, promising weapons that could bomb London from Warsaw. He talked about his plan to "hire" 10 million Chinese peasants to arm and throw against the Imperialists. He'd even mentioned "Those gook loony shells" whatevee that meant, it was certainly important to Stalin.
After uncomfortable silence, Stalin wished him luck, and allowed him to return to Prague. His disipline as a soldier could no longer contain his rage, as he silently strode out into the lobby "Georgy!" a voice cried "Comrade foreign secretary? How can I help you?" he replied. The men closed so no one else was within earshot, and let their facade drop "Slava what the fuck do you want? I have a war to die in!" "Georgy! Georgy!" Molotov urged, uncharacteristicly distressed.
"Listen to me, there are things you should know... for tactical, that is, military reasons." "Yeah?" Zhukov replied "The jet fighter and bomb programs are more delayed than you've been informed." "By how much?" "You won't see jets in action until Summer next year, at least" Zhukov's face fell "The bomb is worse, they tell me they need another three years, and that was after they shot three of them. These NKVD fucks think they can scare the old men into inventing something, it won't do anything but slow us down!"
"What we got from the American project was invaluable, but those contacts are long gone. What I'm trying to say, Comrade General, is the situation is more serious than you've been led to belive "By the boss?" Zhukov asked coyly, Molotov said nothing, bowing his head "Ah! You Molotov really? You crazy fucker you wanna be the next boss?" "I didn't say THAT" "Relax you rat fuck, I'm not gonna tell the old man, I'm late for a plane. I serve the Soviet Union!" He said, meaning it wholeheartedly for the first time in a while.
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Meh, Beria, Hitler and Himmler are definitely ahead of him in my mind. So... #4?
Eh, Beria and Himmler are, in my mind, when it comes to history merely extensions of their respective masters. Horrible monsters both to be clear but also both enabled by their masters to be horrible monsters. Neither of could have reached the "heights" they did without their enablers.
When comparing between Heads of State the top four are all (Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot and Mao) are largely distinguishable by volume as they all did horrible things to get those numbers.
When comparing between Heads of State the top four are all (Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot and Mao) are largely distinguishable by volume as they all did horrible things to get those numbers.
Proper bomb in a suitcase or just straight up shot? Which one would be more funny?
The man smoked like a chimney and was deeply paranoid (And thus, stressed). He could just keel over from a coronary. It would be ironically hilarious for them to put together a complex plan to get him, only to find him dead in his office.
Part 89- Winding up for a Punch
Erfurt, August 1st, 1945
General Eisenhower hopped out of his command jeep, the skies were clear of enemy aircraft for now, but that could change at any moment. As he entered the warehouse that served as 3rd Army's headquarters. The officers and men snapped to attention as he entered, all except the commander himself, who was nose deep in maps and papers."Evening George" he called, causing the general to almost jump out of his skin "Ike!? Christ I never pegged you as the stealthy type, what brings you out here?"
"Well the radios aren't always secure and my last two aide de camps who tried to deliver my message got strafed, so I thought I might as well make the trip. I got something for you, and it's important." "Please tell me I get to start going foward for once." Eisenhower smirked "You do, and I thought you'd have that reaction. I've had five divisions from other armies that were resting off the front transferred to your command, plus four more coming from home."
"The Negro divisions? So Morganthau was serious about that?" "They're still American soldiers and you'll treat them as such General, now is not the time to make a point. That means no holding them back, and it also means you don't go sending them to the slaughter. If I find any evidence of mistreatment I will have you replaced, Clear?" "Crystal. Now what's my objective?" "Leipzig, then up the road to Berlin, then the North Sea." Pattons eyes lit up "Now slow down for a minute. You'll get the signal to begin each phase of the advance, you aren't the only one attacking."
"Really?" Now Pattons eyes went mad "Pray tell." "The plan is for you and Hodges to pivot Northeast while Montgomery moves East, the Canadians essentially form the hinge on the whole thing." "Aren't they-" Eisenhower put his hand up "I know, I know, the situation in Lübeck isn't the best right now, he's working on it. The plan is to start in a weeks time so in the meantime, don't do anything rash, and try to keep as many units off the front without losing ground. Is there anything you think you need?"
Patton took off his helmet to scratch his head, revealing that most of that top of it was covered in thick bandages. "Ooh!" Eisenhower grimaced "Got bit by the bear?" "Yeah, doc said if I was half an inch taller I'd be relearning the alphabet. Tell ya' what Ike, how many of those new Skyraiders are we getting in the next week?" "Uh, about two, three hundred, why?" "I'll need as many of those as you can send my way. Plus any anti-tank weaponry you can spare, yank, kraut, hell French for all I care." "I'll see to it you get them, good day General."
"Wait Ike, one more thing. If this works, do you think that'll be it?" "It better be. I'll fight these bastards all the way back to what's left of Moscow if I have to, but god I don't want that." "I just might." Eisenhower turned to see Patton staring ahead, lost in his own thoughts.
Oh boy, Patton has found out an offensive is in the works and he's already throwing together a plan to execute his part....I like this.
I dislike this characterization. While true he, like most white officers, had low opinions of blacks, in otl he had the first black tank division with him in the third army, there is even a famous speech on it. I do not think his reaction here would have been as you portrayed.
That's fair, I kinda made his wording more subjective on purpose there, so you can interperet it differently.
Part 90- Clearing Out
Chongqing, August 5th, 1945
"Report." General Stilwell shouted over the roar of artilery fire "It's not good sir." the aide said in surprisingly good English "General Yue reports that the defensive line outside the city has collapsed. He recommends the government leave at once." "Noted." Stilwell said. The government had been trying to leave for the past week, but moving a country's military and political leadership was no easy task. Even now staffers were rushing to and fro, packing up some papers, burning others.
Stilwell turned to Chiang Kai-Shek, who'd just gotten off the phone "What's the word on the Shermans?" he asked impatiently "They're here, and performing well." Chiang replied "Then what's the issue here?" "The issue, jackass, is that we only have forty of those things, the commies have 600, it doesn't matter how old they are. Just then, a shell landed close by, blowing out several windows. "Arlight, here's what what we do. I say we strat having the reserve units and those evacuating start making a new line North of Guiyang, we're in no shape for a fighting retreat."
"Agreed." Chiang said quickly "Okay, Stilwell, you should go now, I'm staying." "Shek you can't be serious?" "I am serious, and stop calling me Shek. I'm not planning on dying here, but I need to salvage as many troops as I can." "Alright, then let me help-" "No, if I die some prick can replace me. If you die, ths Americans might decide to cut China loose. You need to stay alive, it'd be better if you called Washington and and asked for more aid."
"I already told you, you aren't getting more aid." Now Stilwell was getting angry "We have concerns beyond China, we've been over this." As he finished, another shell came down, this one landing in the other room, and adding the screams of the wounded to the racket. "Just go." Chiang urged "We can kill eachother later." Conceding, Stilwell and his staff left for the train station.
Outside, the streets were engulfed in chaos. Stilwell's jeep struggled to move fqster than walking lace, as the roads were jammed with people and vehicles. Here and there, a shell crater and a bloodstain or burned out vehicle marked where civilians had had an unlucky meeting with the enemy artillery. An hour later, as his train departed the falling city, Stilwell had a dark thought If Guiyang falls, then where will we go?...
---I must say you have the oddest way in this timeline of making me laugh shortly before describing some fresh horror out of operation unthinkable.
really enjoying the timeline and curious as to what the answer is to the final question, I wonder what point it will become worthwhile for allied ground troops to be deployed into China properly.
Part-91- Exercise in Futility
The atomic bombing of Baku did not impact the Soviet union alone. By late July 1945, nearly 95% of Japan's oil production was being provided at the expense of the Soviet people. While the IJA had touted their railway from Indochina to Manchuria as a lifeline that would sustain the empire indefinitely, in reality the route only provided a fraction what Japan needed under ideal cicumstances, which Chinese partisans and American bombers made sure never occured. Still, it was no surprise to Prime Minister Yonai that Stalin gave no notice that their fuel trade was cancelled, nor that they also repossessed any Japanese oil still on Soviet railcars.
Before the second phase of the war even broke out however, Yonai had been planning an operation to knock out the American bomber bases once and for all. In mid May, the IJN's fleet of cruiser submarines was tasked with a critical mission, the delivery of aviation fuel to the Phillipines. Japan had eight of the largest submarines in world (plus another dozen smaller cruiser subs) the I-400 class submarine. The boats had the range to circle the world, as well as a three plane aircraft hanger for floatplanes. However, no floatplanes would be carried for this mission (nor any torpedoes or deck gun shells) instead, every nook and cranny of the vessels was stuffed with barrels of fuel, and the crew reduced to the bare minimum to save space. While only three older subs were sunk despite all of them making multiple trips, many crew members were poisoned by the fumes in the sometimes leaky barrels.
More difficult was the transportation of the aircraft themselves. While there were generally more experienced bomber pilots than fighter pilots, they were still in the minority. Furthermore Japan by this point was more or less aware that their codes were broken, and so to conceal the scale of the operation, delivered most orders via messenger plane. The result was that despite moving nearly 900 aircraft from the Japanese Home Islands to The Phillipines, US inteligence merely reported "Aware, minor air assets transferred to Phillipines.
Yonai had personally ordered War Minister Itagaki (with himself speaking as Navy Minister) to cooperate across the interservice rivalry when planning this attack, ensuring equal commitment on both sides. Saburō Sakai volunteered to lead the naval aircraft, but was denied as his death would be a blow to morale, and the naval strike was instead led by Tetsuzō Iwamoto. The Army aircraft would be led by Satoro Anabuki, who was granted an audience with The Emperor before departing. Because of the communication blackout, General Yamashita was caught off guard by the number of planes arriving.
Indeed the Japanese position in the Phillipines was beginning to deterioriate. While the Fillipino guerillas had only killed about 12,000 Japanese so far, disease and other causes had killed twice as many, a tenth of Yamashit's garrison. While the men could be fed by the local agriculture, other supplies including ammunition and medicine had to be shipped in, and so none had arrived in almost a year. The only ships now were moving between ln the islands, where American submarines rarely hunted, though even they were being done in by lack of fuel or coal. The island was also occasionally bombed from the Marianas, her planes almost grounded by fuel and pilot shortages
As such many crews found themselves in a tense environment, rookie pilots surrounded by war weary isloated veterans. The aircraft were an even mix of army and navy planes as promised, most of them newer models. About 200 fighters, 400 light bombers, and 300 twin engined bombers, including sixty G4M's carrying Okha's. The light aircraft didn't have the range to return to the Phillipines for the most part, so their crews were given limted choices. They could either crash their aircraft into the runways, parachute out and join the resistance on the islands, parachute on an isolated Japanese occupied island, or fly anywhere and take your chances with the sea, all at the pilot discretion.
The first strike took off in the wee hours of August 6th, 1945, the Americans still none the wiser. Indeed despite prior attacks by air and sea, air defenses were once again reletively slack. 600 fighters including 150 nightf fighters guarded the entire chain, but only a fraction were in the air at any time. At the very least these planes were modern, many of the new Bearcat fighterss had been stationed here as sort of combat trial. Additionally, 200 more night fighters were provided by several escort carriers in picket stations around the islands.
The attack was split into two waves, the first consisted of most of the fighters and light bombers, intended to come in hot and draw fighter fire, while the second wave would arrive later and bomb from high altitude. The attack was spotted 200 miles out by picket destroyers, but the night fighters were scattered and hampered by the dark moonless sky. Arriving just as dawn broke over the islands, the Japanese attack began. As Guam and Tinian each had three and Saipan only one airfield, they took priority. The fighter garrison scambled, and in newer planes, the better pilots triumphed against the Japanese.
Still, many planes made it through, even those critically damaged. Some carried incediaries, some carried modified anti-air rockets, nicknamed "Fireworks" by the Americans. As the attacks came, many bombers were destroyed on the ground, their crews not daring to try and fly them off in all the chaos. Few pilots decided to ditch, some of the last planes fired all their ammo before diving into the runways. One remarkable feat occured during this attack. WASP pilot Jean Landis, who was flying a Bearcat into Guam, became the first American woman to score a fighter kill (and assisted another). The fighters took 28 aircraft destroyed, as well as 60 damaged. But almost as soon as the first wave was over, word came in that more planes were an hour out. Despite having fuel to intercept, many fighters had to return to base to reload.
As around 240 scattered Americans apporached the bomber formation, they at first achived results. The unarmored underarmed planes were torn up, but many of the again peeled off due to running short on ammo. These heavier bombers carried various armaments, many had bombs designed to crater the runways themselves, to delay the landing of replacements. Notably, all 60 Betty's dropped their Okha's unmolested, and all of them returned, save three for mechanical issues. Many still were intercepted, but the bombs still wrought havoc. While only 134 aircraft returned to the Phillipines, they managed to destroy 203 and damage nearly 300 B-29s, along with damage to infrastructure that took two weeks to repair. It was the single largest disruption to the bombing of Japan of the war, but it only lasted three weeks. A surplus of aircraft produced was waiting, and losses were made good quickly. Yet it still meant that for three weeks only two raids struck Japan, a victory for many.
Anabuki himself got incredibly lucky. He'd managed to escape the dogfight intact and fly West, nursing his fuel starved aircraft within 200 miles of the Phillipine coast before ditching. The winds were in his favor, and two weeks later he washed up on Samar, one of only six ditched pilots to be saved. Still, many valuable planes and pilots were lost, which some would argue were better spent protecting Japan directly.
Before the second phase of the war even broke out however, Yonai had been planning an operation to knock out the American bomber bases once and for all. In mid May, the IJN's fleet of cruiser submarines was tasked with a critical mission, the delivery of aviation fuel to the Phillipines. Japan had eight of the largest submarines in world (plus another dozen smaller cruiser subs) the I-400 class submarine. The boats had the range to circle the world, as well as a three plane aircraft hanger for floatplanes. However, no floatplanes would be carried for this mission (nor any torpedoes or deck gun shells) instead, every nook and cranny of the vessels was stuffed with barrels of fuel, and the crew reduced to the bare minimum to save space. While only three older subs were sunk despite all of them making multiple trips, many crew members were poisoned by the fumes in the sometimes leaky barrels.
More difficult was the transportation of the aircraft themselves. While there were generally more experienced bomber pilots than fighter pilots, they were still in the minority. Furthermore Japan by this point was more or less aware that their codes were broken, and so to conceal the scale of the operation, delivered most orders via messenger plane. The result was that despite moving nearly 900 aircraft from the Japanese Home Islands to The Phillipines, US inteligence merely reported "Aware, minor air assets transferred to Phillipines.
Yonai had personally ordered War Minister Itagaki (with himself speaking as Navy Minister) to cooperate across the interservice rivalry when planning this attack, ensuring equal commitment on both sides. Saburō Sakai volunteered to lead the naval aircraft, but was denied as his death would be a blow to morale, and the naval strike was instead led by Tetsuzō Iwamoto. The Army aircraft would be led by Satoro Anabuki, who was granted an audience with The Emperor before departing. Because of the communication blackout, General Yamashita was caught off guard by the number of planes arriving.
Indeed the Japanese position in the Phillipines was beginning to deterioriate. While the Fillipino guerillas had only killed about 12,000 Japanese so far, disease and other causes had killed twice as many, a tenth of Yamashit's garrison. While the men could be fed by the local agriculture, other supplies including ammunition and medicine had to be shipped in, and so none had arrived in almost a year. The only ships now were moving between ln the islands, where American submarines rarely hunted, though even they were being done in by lack of fuel or coal. The island was also occasionally bombed from the Marianas, her planes almost grounded by fuel and pilot shortages
As such many crews found themselves in a tense environment, rookie pilots surrounded by war weary isloated veterans. The aircraft were an even mix of army and navy planes as promised, most of them newer models. About 200 fighters, 400 light bombers, and 300 twin engined bombers, including sixty G4M's carrying Okha's. The light aircraft didn't have the range to return to the Phillipines for the most part, so their crews were given limted choices. They could either crash their aircraft into the runways, parachute out and join the resistance on the islands, parachute on an isolated Japanese occupied island, or fly anywhere and take your chances with the sea, all at the pilot discretion.
The first strike took off in the wee hours of August 6th, 1945, the Americans still none the wiser. Indeed despite prior attacks by air and sea, air defenses were once again reletively slack. 600 fighters including 150 nightf fighters guarded the entire chain, but only a fraction were in the air at any time. At the very least these planes were modern, many of the new Bearcat fighterss had been stationed here as sort of combat trial. Additionally, 200 more night fighters were provided by several escort carriers in picket stations around the islands.
The attack was split into two waves, the first consisted of most of the fighters and light bombers, intended to come in hot and draw fighter fire, while the second wave would arrive later and bomb from high altitude. The attack was spotted 200 miles out by picket destroyers, but the night fighters were scattered and hampered by the dark moonless sky. Arriving just as dawn broke over the islands, the Japanese attack began. As Guam and Tinian each had three and Saipan only one airfield, they took priority. The fighter garrison scambled, and in newer planes, the better pilots triumphed against the Japanese.
Still, many planes made it through, even those critically damaged. Some carried incediaries, some carried modified anti-air rockets, nicknamed "Fireworks" by the Americans. As the attacks came, many bombers were destroyed on the ground, their crews not daring to try and fly them off in all the chaos. Few pilots decided to ditch, some of the last planes fired all their ammo before diving into the runways. One remarkable feat occured during this attack. WASP pilot Jean Landis, who was flying a Bearcat into Guam, became the first American woman to score a fighter kill (and assisted another). The fighters took 28 aircraft destroyed, as well as 60 damaged. But almost as soon as the first wave was over, word came in that more planes were an hour out. Despite having fuel to intercept, many fighters had to return to base to reload.
As around 240 scattered Americans apporached the bomber formation, they at first achived results. The unarmored underarmed planes were torn up, but many of the again peeled off due to running short on ammo. These heavier bombers carried various armaments, many had bombs designed to crater the runways themselves, to delay the landing of replacements. Notably, all 60 Betty's dropped their Okha's unmolested, and all of them returned, save three for mechanical issues. Many still were intercepted, but the bombs still wrought havoc. While only 134 aircraft returned to the Phillipines, they managed to destroy 203 and damage nearly 300 B-29s, along with damage to infrastructure that took two weeks to repair. It was the single largest disruption to the bombing of Japan of the war, but it only lasted three weeks. A surplus of aircraft produced was waiting, and losses were made good quickly. Yet it still meant that for three weeks only two raids struck Japan, a victory for many.
Anabuki himself got incredibly lucky. He'd managed to escape the dogfight intact and fly West, nursing his fuel starved aircraft within 200 miles of the Phillipine coast before ditching. The winds were in his favor, and two weeks later he washed up on Samar, one of only six ditched pilots to be saved. Still, many valuable planes and pilots were lost, which some would argue were better spent protecting Japan directly.
I suspect that the last line of the update is a prediction. No matter how well this mission went, all it accomplished was to delay the inevitable... By a whole two weeks.
The next nuclear bomb is likely to be delivered without issue, as the aircraft that could have intercepted it were lost in this battle.
The next nuclear bomb is likely to be delivered without issue, as the aircraft that could have intercepted it were lost in this battle.
Japan managed to complete eight I-400 class subs? Damn, those soviet resources have been useful. Question: what targets were the Okhas fired at in this raid? They're anti-shipping weapons normally, and probably are not worth use against ground targets.
Perhaps. Bit improbable, but a "Japan rolls all 6s and still fails to accomplish much of note because they are just THAT outmatched" is a nice timeline niche to fill.