Geronimo : What if Osama Bin Laden was killed prior to 9/11?

[Light_Star 1]

Frankly, I think Islamophobia here is weaker in OTL. Even with the attack on the Russian Foreign Ministry, it will still be weaker.

The Russians, unlike the Americans, have a more nationalistic and specific vision for Muslims, and not as comprehensive as the Americans

(The Russians were very tolerant of Kazakhs, Turks, Central Asian Muslims, Azeris, and Russian Muslims, Slavs, who often showed loyalty to the Russian state.)

And with Muslims, Arabs, Africans, Persians, Kurds and Albanians, who were their allies throughout the Cold War.

But they are very cruel to the Chechens and Circassians who have shown their tendency to rebel against them

And hostility towards the Turks because they are a Western ally and a threat to them

So I don't see that changing with September 4th

The effect I might see is that this time the Chechens have a bad international image, so no one would mind cracking them down hard.

I don't think we will see an invasion of Afghanistan but more support for the Northern Alliance (via Ashgabat)

So I think the attack will have a weaker effect than September 11th
Except for encouraging airline passengers to resist the hijackers

The damage is that Putin will struggle to find a brilliant diplomat to become foreign minister (if Lavrov is among the victims).

And the victims will be less because the building, unlike wtc, will take longer to collapse and being wide may only destroy the upper part while keeping the lower part intact.

I agree with you. Though as a friendly word of advice I recommend doing your best to try not to repeat yourself or reiterate points too often in multiple posts.

 

[ahmedali]

I agree with you. Though as a friendly word of advice I recommend doing your best to try not to repeat yourself or reiterate points too often in multiple posts.

My apologies, this is a bad childhood habit, I will try to reduce it

But I hope the author will take it into account

So that September 4 is not just September 11, but in Russia

 

[Iwanh]

My apologies, this is a bad childhood habit, I will try to reduce it

But I hope the author will take it into account

So that September 4 is not just September 11, but in Russia

Rest assured, I take on board all suggestions and try to research as much as possible

 

[ahmedali]

Rest assured, I take on board all suggestions and try to research as much as possible

I'm glad you do

 

[Gillan1220]

In OTL, Russia's 9/11 was the 2002 theater hostage crisis and the Belsan school crisis which occurred in OTL September 2004 (paralleling ATL's date).

I'm sure the 2002 Bali bombings and the 2004 Super Ferry 9 bombing is also butterflied away. I need a recap if the Madrid train stateion bombings occurred here.

 

[Iwanh]

In OTL, Russia's 9/11 was the 2002 theater hostage crisis and the Belsan school crisis which occurred in OTL September 2004 (paralleling ATL's date).

I'm sure the 2002 Bali bombings and the 2004 Super Ferry 9 bombing is also butterflied away. I need a recap if the Madrid train stateion bombings occurred here.

Both the Bali and the Ferry bombings occur as they were carried out by groups less connected to Bin Laden and Al-Qaeda but Madrid has been butterflied

 

[ahmedali]

In addition to Bali and Super Ferry

Did all the terrorist attacks around the world during and after 2003 fade away and not happen?

 

[ahmedali]

I think without invading Iraq

Sergio Vieira de Mello, the United Nations envoy to Iraq, will survive his death (because the bombing of the Canal Hotel in Baghdad will not happen), along with his Sudanese representative, Dr. Amin Mekki Madani and many of Sergio's crew

If this happens, Ban Ki-moon will not become the Secretary-General of the United Nations to succeed Annan (Sergio was considered a possible candidate for the position of Secretary-General of the United Nations).

 

[Scorpius72]

Since in TTL there's no war on Terror then perhaps when the sub-prime mortgage crisis occurs then the FBI will be focusing on all of those crooked bankers and other officials responsible will investigated and prosecuted (This would result in hundreds of people going to federal prison in the US).

 

[ahmedali]

Since in TTL there's no war on Terror then perhaps when the sub-prime mortgage crisis occurs then the FBI will be focusing on all of those crooked bankers and other officials responsible will investigated and prosecuted (This would result in hundreds of people going to federal prison in the US).

Let's hope President Edwards avoids the depression of 2008

or previous arrests

 

[Gillan1220]

In addition to Bali and Super Ferry

Did all the terrorist attacks around the world during and after 2003 fade away and not happen?

Some terrorist attacks still happened on OTL, some took other forms, and some are butterflied away such as the Madrid attacks. It remains to be seen if 7/7 or an analogue to it will occur.

I think without invading Iraq

Sergio Vieira de Mello, the United Nations envoy to Iraq, will survive his death (because the bombing of the Canal Hotel in Baghdad will not happen), along with his Sudanese representative, Dr. Amin Mekki Madani and many of Sergio's crew

If this happens, Ban Ki-moon will not become the Secretary-General of the United Nations to succeed Annan (Sergio was considered a possible candidate for the position of Secretary-General of the United Nations).

I remember watching Sergio on Netflix during the Great Coronavirus lockdown. Such as sad film on what could have been a possible peace plan for Iraq.

Since in TTL there's no war on Terror then perhaps when the sub-prime mortgage crisis occurs then the FBI will be focusing on all of those crooked bankers and other officials responsible will investigated and prosecuted (This would result in hundreds of people going to federal prison in the US).

Or on domestic terrorists, Neo Nazi groups, etc.

Let's hope President Edwards avoids the depression of 2008

or previous arrests

This got me thinking that the 2007-2008 depression was unavoidable regardless who sat on the Oval.

 

[ahmedali]

Some terrorist attacks still happened on OTL, some took other forms, and some are butterflied away such as the Madrid attacks. It remains to be seen if 7/7 or an analogue to it will occur.

I remember watching Sergio on Netflix during the Great Coronavirus lockdown. Such as sad film on what could have been a possible peace plan for Iraq.

Or on domestic terrorists, Neo Nazi groups, etc.

This got me thinking that the 2007-2008 depression was unavoidable regardless who sat on the Oval.

Without the war on terror I see depression being avoided (it had an important role if not the main cause)

So without his death he might become the Secretary-General of the United Nations and be the first Brazilian and the first person from the Americas

(And only Portuguese-speaking unless Gutierrez is nominated as an OTL)

(I don't see Lula trying to push Sergio's candidacy, especially if he has a good reputation compared to Kofi Annan)

And effective unlike Ban Ki-moon who has become a meme about being constantly worried

The neo-Nazis are not taken seriously and only rose because of Islamophobia, which does not exist in this alternative reality

In terms of terrorist attacks, I'd like to avoid the Amman attacks (so we get Sean Connery as Saladin)

And avoid blowing up the public security building in Riyadh

(The two victims were two little girls and this made me cry so much)

The most important thing is to avoid the bombing of Rafik Hariri's convoy (Lebanon has proven that it desperately needs it).

 

[JCC the Alt Historian]

Let's hope President Edwards avoids the depression of 2008

or previous arrests

This got me thinking that the 2007-2008 depression was unavoidable regardless who sat on the Oval.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that the Great Recession will most likely still happen in the late 2000s, but without the War on Terror or the Iraq War, it probably won't be as bad as OTL. The housing market bubble will probably also pop around the same time, though it might not be as bad.

I'm not sure if gas prices will hit $4 per gallon in 2008 in the US either.

 

[Deleted member 145219]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that the Great Recession will most likely still happen in the late 2000s, but without the War on Terror or the Iraq War, it probably won't be as bad as OTL. The housing market bubble will probably also pop around the same time, though it might not be as bad.

I'm not sure if gas prices will hit $4 per gallon in 2008 in the US either.

I'm hoping for a decent two term Edwards Presidency. And not the usual "President John Edwards, resigned and disgraced by scandal," trope.

 

[JCC the Alt Historian]

I'm hoping for a decent two term Edwards Presidency. And not the usual "President John Edwards, resigned and disgraced by scandal," trope.

We'll just have to wait and see pal.

However, a lot of alt-history tropes I've seen of John Edwards being only disgraced by his scandal and loosing reelection and remaining in office until the end of his term.

 

[Scorpius72]

In the OTL didn't director James Cameron have plans for a sequel to his 1994 hit "True Lies"?

 

[KingSweden24]

I'm hoping for a decent two term Edwards Presidency. And not the usual "President John Edwards, resigned and disgraced by scandal," trope.

Agreed. It’s worth remembering that Edwards only met Rielle Hunter due to the context of his 2008 campaign, and a million butterflies could have prevented that meeting. Edwards did not at all have a reputation for philandering or even being a bit of a Bubba-esque glad-handing charmer before that, contra his smooth Southern presentation

 

[Deleted member 145219]

Agreed. It’s worth remembering that Edwards only met Rielle Hunter due to the context of his 2008 campaign, and a million butterflies could have prevented that meeting. Edwards did not at all have a reputation for philandering or even being a bit of a Bubba-esque glad-handing charmer before that, contra his smooth Southern presentation

We have the same understanding of John Edwards.

 

[The Ghost of Danton]

Agreed. It’s worth remembering that Edwards only met Rielle Hunter due to the context of his 2008 campaign, and a million butterflies could have prevented that meeting. Edwards did not at all have a reputation for philandering or even being a bit of a Bubba-esque glad-handing charmer before that, contra his smooth Southern presentation

The thing that makes hesitant on Edwards is that he told some story to John Kerry about making a promise on his son's grave and that Kerry was the first person he ever told about it, but John Kerry came away unsettled because Edwards had in fact told him this story years before hand. It feels like a red flag.

 

[KingSweden24]

The thing that makes hesitant on Edwards is that he told some story to John Kerry about making a promise on his son's grave and that Kerry was the first person he ever told about it, but John Kerry came away unsettled because Edwards had in fact told him this story years before hand. It feels like a red flag.

Yeah, this is not to say that Edwards isn’t an airbag/ambulance-chasing huckster, just that the specific scandal for which he is infamous was a very specific set of circumstances that by all accounts was out of character for him