Germany's Jaguar heavy tank

What if in a flash inspiration Ferdinand Porche in early 1939 promised to give Hitler a 'tank to end all tanks' in after two years the Jaguar heavy tank is created with sloped front armor some 100mm thick, using an enlarged (and widened) Panzer IV suspension system. The real punch of the Jaguar in the massive 105mm which is essentially 10.5cm flak 38 with a few modifications.

Hitler is impressed and orders it into production. The first batch some four vehicles due to a bureau error get sent to north Africa just in time to take part in the second battle of Tobruk.

How do the allies react to Germany's new heavy tank packing an anti aircraft gun? Would the British copy the idea? How would the M3 Lee and Sherman fair?
 

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Your best bet is the VK-20 getting into production. Although the gun is nowhere near as big as you’ve posted.

The Germans don’t seem to have really looked at sloping armour until after Barbarossa and exposure to Russian tanks.

Anything else is hefty doses of handwavium.

Were any of the designs as you listed considered anywhere?
 
Don't take this the wrong way but have you thought of the weight of such a tank? Its going to be at least as heavy as a Tiger II using WW2 tech even if the rest of the armor is paper thin. The number of roads and bridges it could use will be very limited. Put one in North Africa and its not going to be much use other than as a pill box. Not to mention the resources used mean Germany might have 1/4 of the tanks of OTL. German pursuit of Mega weapons is part of the reason they ended up losing.
 
What if in a flash inspiration Ferdinand Porche in early 1939 promised to give Hitler a 'tank to end all tanks' in after two years the Jaguar heavy tank is created with sloped front armor some 100mm thick, using an enlarged (and widened) Panzer IV suspension system.

Other stuff, not that far from the VK 30.01 (P)
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But Dr Porsche going with a simple suspension system?

ASB Forum ---> that away

:cool:
 
Just because something didn’t happen OTL its not quite ASB.
The reason for making it is handvawium, but Guderian wanted a super heavy breakthrough tank IOTL. It was deemed unfeasible, so thePOD would be the task is not cancelled, but ends with Porsche.
That guy could put a good theory before practicality, so sloping armor, perhaps. Engine...probably two of them.
But now it grows...suspension, I’m thinking overlapping wheels and torsion bar. It Can do the job, but what Porsche would Pick is anyones guess.
 
What doesn't get built? The jaguar will suck up a lot if resources.
Most likely the Tiger won't get built. A Jaguar would use more resources meaning fewer tanks are produced. Meaning fewer tanks per square mile.
Switching 105mm anti-aircraft guns with 88s will decrease allied heavy bomber casualties not a good thing if you're a German.
If the Jaguar burns more fuel than its weight in Tiger tanks that will be another problem.
 
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Actually built and used on the 2 VK3001(P) in 1940, the 5 VK4501(P) in 1942 as well as on the 90 Ferdinands from 1943 onwards.

Though a late war development, the stacked belleville washers of the 'E' series could have been done in the '30s, and solved some of the problems of torsion bars, in bold below
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EINHEITSLAUFWERK

It was decided that torsion bars were difficult and costly to make, and as the larger factories were getting bombed round the clock something was needed that could be simple enough to hand to small engineering concerns to fabricate under sub- contract. The new bogie carried 800mm steel rimmed "rubber saving" wheels from the Tiger II. This type of wheel is often refered to as "silent bloc". (A similar design was also seen on the late Jagdpanzer IV chassis, albeit a much smaller size. Also Spielberger vol 9: Der PzKfw Panther und sein Abarten pp 71 has a photo of a new Panther G at a showing for the top brass. In the background is a Hummel munitions carrier with six medium size silent bloc wheels, designed by Krupp. To the best of my knowledge this design did not enter service, nor have I seen any other photos of it) The wheels were mounted on geared swing arms suspended against springs made of simple Belleville washers held in tubes, with a hydraulic shock absorber down the centre of each. The suspension unit was designed by MAN of Augsburg, and was small, due to the high loading it could take, and easy to produce. The washers could be churned out on most stamping machines. The axles for the swing arms still needed machining on a lathe, but they were nowhere near the size of torsion bars. The complete bogie was refered to as "Einheitslaufwerk", or standardized running gear. A lesson learned from the American Sherman suspension was that none of the components was handed. The wheels straddled the track guide teeth, but the same length axles were used: the wheels had a bearing spacer on one side which could be reversed, setting one wheel in and one wheel out. An escape hatch could be fitted in the hull floor now, almost impossible with torsion bars. Mine damage would be much easier to fix as the complete unit could be unbolted and replaced, where as mine damaged and buckled torsion bars often had to be removed with a cutting torch, after the interleaved wheels had been removed first of course.
http://fingolfen.tripod.com/eseries/e50.html
 
Germans relied on boxy tank turrets/hulls for several reasons. Sloped 60o armor meant 1/2 the plate thickness for the same AFV mass and therefore twice the T/D ratio for the enemy [PLATE THICKNESS divided by the PROJECTILE DIAMETER ] ....which leads to more penetration....In theory! Likewise prewar research showed that Krupp Face Hardened armor could defeat most enemy tank/anti tank gun APC ammo. This also afforded the AFV maximum internal volume , which lead to more stored ammo and fuel plus higher rates of fire, which was expected to be critical. The Spanish Civil war showed that thinner sloped FH armor could be easily overmatched by regular APC shells and lead to the plates shattering due to lower T/D.

But of course face hardened armor used strategic metals that were in short supply, so solving the armor effort was forced to use modest sloped armors, which was a good thing because most guns moved to APCBC ammo by early war reducing the effectiveness of FH armor. Sharply sloped armor was avoided because it needed more structural mass to support and reduced volume in critical areas. It was probably more expensive to manufacture such tanks as well.
 
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