Germany without Soviet Occupation zone

I like how you berate me for making assumptions on the OP, and then make assumptions on the OP. :rolleyes:

I am assuming nothing. I'm taking the OP at his written word and he's only written about whether the Soviets will get an occupation zone or not.

He's pretty clearly asking about what's going to happen involving the Soviet zone.

He has asked what's going to happen involving a Soviet occupation zone. He's asked whether there will be a Soviet occupation zone or not.

He isn't assuming that a Soviet zone would still exist, but he's not assuming the zone would be exactly the same, either.

That's not what's he's written. He's proposed meat grinder on the Eastern Front which keeps the USSR within or close to it's borders by war's end, he suggests that result would make the USSR seem like less of threat to the West, and then he asks if ... the USSR still gets an occupation zone, or are they ignored?

In his two posts he never mentions the possibility of a different Soviet occupation zone and he only asks about whether there would be a Soviet occupation zone or not.

I cannot fathom how you can read his two posts and come to the conclusion you have. Please quote those parts of his two posts in which you believe the OP is asking about different occupation zones because I simply must be missing something.
 
I don't understand why this is so important to you. Most discussions on this or any other site end up getting sidetracked. There are, oftentimes, far more interesting discussions at hand than exactly what the OP wants. And I don't even understand why you're bringing this up and focusing on it. Why does it concern you so much?

In any case, he specifically asks what happens in Germany. There are many things that can happen in Germany. This is not a binary set. It is not a case of Soviet-zone-as-OTL or no-Soviet-zone. And I answered that question. The fact that I did not answer it specifically with one of those two responses should not be a concern. If you are actually interested in history, rather than shallow, three word answers, you should applaud a more detailed response. If you're not interested in history, then post your three word response and leave the thread, so those of us who are interested can have our discussion.
 
I don't understand why this is so important to you.


I want to know whether I've had a stroke or you're misrepresenting the OP's words.

Most discussions on this or any other site end up getting sidetracked.

So you have expanded on the discussion by expanding on the OP's original question? Thanks for finally admitting it as I was really worried about the stroke.

In any case, he specifically asks what happens in Germany.

Yes, he specifically asks whether or not there would be a Soviet occupation zone in Germany. You and some others have expanded on that question by examining how that occupation zone can be changed.

This is not a binary set. It is not a case of Soviet-zone-as-OTL or no-Soviet-zone.

It was when the OP asked it. It is no longer that binary question however.

And I answered that question.

You answered your expanded question. Wiking and I answered the OP's initial question.

If you are actually interested in history, rather than shallow, three word answers, you should applaud a more detailed response.

I applaud them and I gave them. Check out posts 10, 18, 20, and 25.
 
I wasn't saying I expanded the question. I was wondering, if I had expanded on it, why you were so focused on it.

Again, I'd like to point out one of the questions he asked:

What happens in Germany and the West?

He asked more than one question. This one was very open, and pretty clearly a lot more general than his second question, asking about the Soviet occupation zone (even that wasn't necessarily just "is it there or not?", a binary response doesn't do it justice). And again, I still want to know why this is so important to you. I know the only reason I've responded to your last few posts has been a mixture of incredulity and curiosity... and to show you that I'm neither misrepresenting the question, nor have you probably had a stroke, you're just focused far too much on the second of two questions OP asked. ;)
 
If the Soviets only get to Warsaw before the Wallies get to Berlin, how would a Soviet Occupation Zone work surrounded by capitalistic FRG and West Poland?
 
My understanding was that France received an occupation zone because it allowed for Germany to be broken into 4ths instead of 3rds, leaving more of Germany under Western occupation than if France was kept out of the deal.

Considering that the French occupation zone was carved out of the American-British zone, I'm afraid it's not true. The exact same amount of German soil would have been Western-occupied actually.
 
The Soviets are going to get their occupation zone no matter what. The best the Germans could hope for is Hitler and Roosevelt dying of natural causes in 1944 or so, and the latter being replaced by Truman, and throwing everything they have at the Eastern Front while letting the Western Allies occupy Western Germany basically unopposed. This could (still unlikely, but a possibility) lead to Central Germany (i.e. Thuringia and Saxony-Anhalt) ending up west of the Iron Curtain and the GDR retaining some more territory in the East to make it viable (i.e. at least Stettin and Lower Silesia to the Oder/Glatzer Neisse, maybe even all of Lower Silesia, East Brandenburg and most of Eastern Pomerania). East Prussia, Upper Silesia, Grenzmark and all Nazi territorial gains (that includes Austria) are going to be lost in any case.
 

Valdemar II

Banned
The Soviets are going to get their occupation zone no matter what. The best the Germans could hope for is Hitler and Roosevelt dying of natural causes in 1944 or so, and the latter being replaced by Truman, and throwing everything they have at the Eastern Front while letting the Western Allies occupy Western Germany basically unopposed. This could (still unlikely, but a possibility) lead to Central Germany (i.e. Thuringia and Saxony-Anhalt) ending up west of the Iron Curtain and the GDR retaining some more territory in the East to make it viable (i.e. at least Stettin and Lower Silesia to the Oder/Glatzer Neisse, maybe even all of Lower Silesia, East Brandenburg and most of Eastern Pomerania). East Prussia, Upper Silesia, Grenzmark and all Nazi territorial gains (that includes Austria) are going to be lost in any case.

You may also see the Elb more or less end up as the East-West spit, so we have a DDR made up by Lower Silesia, Brandeburg, Pommern and Mecklenburg. If Poland are under western control/protection, the Russian may even push for keeping the pre-War borders to keep their occupation zone as big as possible.

Some interesting aspects are also Danzig, sudetenland and the areas the Poles may get. If Poland and Czechoslovakia are in western camp and still ethnic cleanse their countries for Germans, we may see a much more pro-USSR West Germany, and a DDR which are seen as much more legitime by the Germans.
 
You may also see the Elb more or less end up as the East-West spit, so we have a DDR made up by Lower Silesia, Brandeburg, Pommern and Mecklenburg. If Poland are under western control/protection, the Russian may even push for keeping the pre-War borders to keep their occupation zone as big as possible.

Some interesting aspects are also Danzig, sudetenland and the areas the Poles may get. If Poland and Czechoslovakia are in western camp and still ethnic cleanse their countries for Germans, we may see a much more pro-USSR West Germany, and a DDR which are seen as much more legitime by the Germans.

If the pre-war boundaries (I guess by that you mean pre-Munich) are kept, there won't be many Germans left inside Poland, so German anger will mostly be directed at Czechia, especially since West Germany will only border Czechia directly. OTOH the Western Allies might not allow Czechia to expel the Sudeten Germans, since with them expelled, the Czech communists will win fair elections, with them present they won't (Czechia will still be allowed to ban "separatist", i.e. German parties). As far as Poland is concerned, the communists won't stand a chance in fair elections there anyways (but I think it's unlikely that the Western Allies will make it further East than Breslau and Stettin in any case).
 
What if Nazi Germany defeats the Soviet Union and gets everything west of the Urals, then the Western Allies defeat Nazi Germany. Then the Soviet Union does not necessarily get an occupation zone, and Poland could get an occupation zone.
 
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