Germany wins ww1 and has Mexico as ally

Mrstrategy

Banned
What if germany wins ww1 in Europe and Mexico is an ally that's in trouble fighting the u.s will the Germans help the Mexicans and send its war fleet and troops to help them
 

shiftygiant

Gone Fishin'
No.

A Germany that wins WW1 in 1914/1915 is a Germany that doesn't have Mexico as an ally. A Germany that wins the war in 1916/1917 is a Germany too exhausted and worn down to do anything significant other than token arms supplies, most of which would be immediately captured and destroyed by a nation tapping into the bare surface of it's potential, who can crush the Goverment of a nation that is torn in two by Civil War with the ease I can crack open a pistachio nut. The Invasion and Occupied Veracruz is enough to tell you what will happen.
 
It would be very difficult to tell the troops who survived the horror of the Western Front to hop on the boat to fight what would be seen as an imperialistic war. It would probably cause a revolt or revolution.

Not to mention during this time period the Mexican Revolution as in full swing. If the Germans side with Huerta than Madero, Zapta, Villa, and Carranza would find plenty of American support
 
Germany wouldn't have to do much, merely show some practical support to Mexico, a ship full of arms and a warship might make the US begin negotiate.
 
Germany wouldn't have to do much, merely show some practical support to Mexico, a ship full of arms and a warship might make the US begin negotiate.

...How? Germany will continue their war against a foe an ocean away? Are we doing an operation Sealion decades earlier and with a target thousands of miles away?
 
Germany wouldn't have to do much, merely show some practical support to Mexico, a ship full of arms and a warship might make the US begin negotiate.

They did try to send arms in 1914 on the SS Ypiranga but it of course was stopped by the American occupation of Veracruz and the ship was captured and eventually released. A warship could help but where would it coal? The United States would certainly not tolerate it and the British probably would not be very interested either. It could coal in a neutral country but this is the time of the Roosevelt Corollary and most of the Caribbean as well as a good chunk of Latin America was under American occupation
 

shiftygiant

Gone Fishin'
Germany wouldn't have to do much, merely show some practical support to Mexico, a ship full of arms and a warship might make the US begin negotiate.
America seizes the Arms Ship and sinks the Warship, Mexico continues to ignore Germany.
 
What if germany wins ww1 in Europe and Mexico is an ally that's in trouble fighting the u.s will the Germans help the Mexicans and send its war fleet and troops to help them
Mexico would never form an alliance with Germany, because Germany's to far away to support them.
 
They did try to send arms in 1914 on the SS Ypiranga but it of course was stopped by the American occupation of Veracruz and the ship was captured and eventually released. A warship could help but where would it coal? The United States would certainly not tolerate it and the British probably would not be very interested either. It could coal in a neutral country but this is the time of the Roosevelt Corollary and most of the Caribbean as well as a good chunk of Latin America was under American occupation

I'm assuming that the US isn't at war with Germany, that Germany has won which includes an armistice with Britain, before the US entered the war. I'm also assuming that the US isn't actually at war with Mexico, the Punitive Expedition wasn't war, when Pershing's Forces were checked and then asked to leave they did so, although the US apparently did have a notion to invade Mexico to safeguard US interests threatened by the 1917 Mexican Constitution.

In that case Britain would be going back on its armistice terms if it tried to stop a German warship from going somewhere and the US would be risking an actual war if it tried to oppose with force German ships at sea. Germany could be formally recognising the winner of the Revolution as the legitimate Government and supplying it with arms and undertaking a diplomatic goodwill visit, not really a reason for the US to go to war with Germany.
 
Mexico fighting the US is a fantasy they never stood a chance nor does Germany. The US utterly outclasses Mexico and Germany is too far away to help. It's the 1910s ships run on coal, Germany can't project itself into the Atlantic from Europe in any way that helps Mexico. Mexico cannot stand up to the US in this time period, it is too weak.
 
Mexico would get nothing out of it aside from tens of thousands if not more dead. They'd be lucky to get a white peace out of it. For that reason, not a single faction during the Mexican Revolution would be interested in taking up Germany's offer--remember Mexico during WWI is divided and basically in a state of civil war that saw about 1/10 of the Mexican population either killed or fled to the United States.

Further, Germany had zero extra soldiers to send to Mexico to help them, and probably once they got to Mexico, they'd be more used by whoever was in charge of Mexico at that phase of the Mexican Revolution to kill other Mexicans rather than to kill Americans. That's if they even get there and manage to avoid any British, French, or American warships in the way.
 
People seem to assume that it will be Mexico as the aggressor, but given the history of the period it is almost 100% certain that any war would be started by the USA and Mexico will have choice no but to fight. Seeking an ally will be something in Mexico's interest and who better than the winner of the European war?
 

NoMommsen

Donor
What if germany wins ww1 in Europe and Mexico is an ally that's in trouble fighting the u.s will the Germans help the Mexicans and send its war fleet and troops to help them
I would like to know, how and when you think Mexico allies with Germany /CP, and if there will be DoW USA-Germany or only USA-Mexico.

To the others rejecting any means for Germany to support Mexico in its fight against USA :
Pls don't forget, that with the OP given Germany has WON the war and most likely as OTL with the HSF mostly intact.

An HSF that, at that time 1915/16/17 would be quite capable to beat, what the USA was able to throw at them.
An HSF able to coal, NOW THAT THE EUROPEAN WAR IS OVER everywhere on route. (Coaling on sea i.e [depending on weather conditions] HSF was trained to).

And NOW THAT THE EUROPEAN WAR IS OVER I could see german support convois with all the surplus gained by beating France and Russia, squeazing their war materials from them, arrive in considerable numbers.

(Ofc depending, if the just beaten european powers don't want to go to war again against Germany for supporting the USA.)
 
I would like to know, how and when you think Mexico allies with Germany /CP, and if there will be DoW USA-Germany or only USA-Mexico.

To the others rejecting any means for Germany to support Mexico in its fight against USA :
Pls don't forget, that with the OP given Germany has WON the war and most likely as OTL with the HSF mostly intact.

An HSF that, at that time 1915/16/17 would be quite capable to beat, what the USA was able to throw at them.
An HSF able to coal, NOW THAT THE EUROPEAN WAR IS OVER everywhere on route. (Coaling on sea i.e [depending on weather conditions] HSF was trained to).

And NOW THAT THE EUROPEAN WAR IS OVER I could see german support convois with all the surplus gained by beating France and Russia, squeazing their war materials from them, arrive in considerable numbers.

(Ofc depending, if the just beaten european powers don't want to go to war again against Germany for supporting the USA.)

In which case, we come back to:

No.

A Germany that wins WW1 in 1914/1915 is a Germany that doesn't have Mexico as an ally. A Germany that wins the war in 1916/1917 is a Germany too exhausted and worn down to do anything significant other than token arms supplies, most of which would be immediately captured and destroyed by a nation tapping into the bare surface of it's potential, who can crush the Goverment of a nation that is torn in two by Civil War with the ease I can crack open a pistachio nut. The Invasion and Occupied Veracruz is enough to tell you what will happen.

Is the HSF really going to want to sortie on the other side of the Atlantic against a fresh, capable enemy (those convoys will need lots of protection), and is Germany really going to keep going at wartime capacity just to support Mexico? Is the German Army really going to want to deploy to Mexico just to keep Mexico in the war? Germany would throw logically Mexico under the bus the moment Mexico's job (distracting the US) is done, because Germany can't reasonably get anything out of Mexico (oil, resources) than they can get anything into Mexico. Too much US Navy in the way. The only friendly naval bases are in Mexico, unless they've conned the French into giving them access to their Caribbean Islands, in which case the US will seize them as soon as possible.

Also, what's Japan doing? The war's ended in Europe, but not necessarily Asia. If Germany tries to get things to Mexico via the Pacific, that will mean more German naval activity there and therefore give the Japanese Navy a hassle and also something to shoot at. If Germany's staying in the war, do they want their Pacific Islands/concessions in China back, and will Japan give them back without a fight? All things to consider.
 

NoMommsen

Donor
Mostly I could agree with @metalinvader665 .
But ... at least some things and developments of things IMO depend on
1. when get Mexico and germany allied and how, on what terms will this alliance be achieved
2. when will the european war ends (wich would call for very different peace treaties signed there)
3. will there be an US DoW against Germany before or after the european war has ended ... or at all ?
4. how and why and when would USA and Mexico go to war at each other

That's why I asked @Mrstrategy or these.
 
Top