Germany uses chemical weapons on Eastern Front 1945

WI when the Soviets where coming into Germany, and everything was thrown at them from young boys, to old men Hitler decided to use the German chemical weapon stockpiles?
 
It gets uglier for Germany and to some extent the Soviets. German nerve gas production had a lot of glitches and by this time the Allies had overwhelming air superiority, which would have left German cities and logistics vulnerable. If the Germans were going to use Nerve Gas, the time to have done it would have been much earlier--1940 for the Battle of Britain or 1941/42 in the Soviet Union, and especially for the battles of Stalingrad and Leningrad. My understanding is that production lagged and stockpiles were deemed inadequate during that period, which was factor in them not getting used.

One ex-Soviet germ warfare guy claims that the Soviets probably used bacteriological weapons on two occasions in 1942. One involved rabbit fever and ended up infecting a lot more Soviet civilians than it did Germans. Apparently the Germans never figured out they were under biological attack. If that's true, and I'm not sure it is, German detection of that attack and retaliation for it would have been a logical time for the use of nerve gases. Anyone know what the Germans were doing in terms of germ warfare?
 
Hitler actually sent an order like this in OTL, Keitling refused to relay it though on the grounds that although Germany did have some capacity left to deploy them, it was nothing compared to the Allies ability to respond and would thus result in Germany being sent back to the stone age.
 
It gets uglier for Germany and to some extent the Soviets. German nerve gas production had a lot of glitches and by this time the Allies had overwhelming air superiority, which would have left German cities and logistics vulnerable. If the Germans were going to use Nerve Gas, the time to have done it would have been much earlier--1940 for the Battle of Britain or 1941/42 in the Soviet Union, and especially for the battles of Stalingrad and Leningrad. My understanding is that production lagged and stockpiles were deemed inadequate during that period, which was factor in them not getting used.

One ex-Soviet germ warfare guy claims that the Soviets probably used bacteriological weapons on two occasions in 1942. One involved rabbit fever and ended up infecting a lot more Soviet civilians than it did Germans. Apparently the Germans never figured out they were under biological attack. If that's true, and I'm not sure it is, German detection of that attack and retaliation for it would have been a logical time for the use of nerve gases. Anyone know what the Germans were doing in terms of germ warfare?

The Germans had weaponized yellow fever for sure, useless in winter conditions though and probably wouldn't be too lethal... they also did some work with anthrax (not nearly as advanced or lethal as the British trials)
 
By '45 the Soviets can take the resulting nerve gas losses and still win by a massive margin. Germany can't take the retaliation. Germany surrenders earlier with higher casualties on all sides. Occupation zones will probably wind-up the same as OTL.

A bigger problem is this might prompt either the Japanese or the Americans (or both) too go chemical/biological in the Pacific. That might effect whether the Japanese surrender as OTL or keeps fighting, with the resulting repercussions from the American and Soviet invasions.
 
The Germans created the "G series" of nerve agents. Tabun and Sarin were what they had in amounts enough to attempt to use them. Stuff is deadly as all hell and if concentrations could be made high enough the Soviets would have no defense. Of course the soviets had their own chemical weapons of the WW1 type.

In the end all it does is drives up the body count I think. Now using Chemical weapons combined with an attempt to break out of Stalingrad might have interesting effect. I wonder at the temp though as cold was trouble for many chemical weapons and I don't know what it would do to the nerve agents.

Michael
 
The Soviets can take the resulting nerve gas losses. Germany can't take the retaliation. Germany surrenders earlier with higher casualties on all sides. Occupation zones will probably wind-up the same as OTL.

A bigger problem is this might prompt either the Japanese or the Americans (or both) too go chemical/biological in the Pacific. That might effect whether the Japanese surrender as OTL or keeps fighting, with the resulting repercussions from the American and Soviet invasions.

it depends on when the Germans employ the weapons. Lets assume its before the Soviet Oder offensive and before the W. allies burst over the Rhine. News will leak out that the Germans employed their nerve agents. The Russians retaliate with mustard gas (not tremendously effective, but enough to get some attention)

The British with Churchill still at the helm, knowing their desperate manpower shortage and desire to end the war immediately and perhaps fearing nerve agents might be added to v1s or v2s (even if such fear is irrational) employ anthrax via their bombers, GAME OVER. You think Hamburg or Dresden was bad...Churchill would have had no compunction about exterminating the entire German culture with Anthrax, and effectively leaving a waste land/ 600 mile wide anthrax mine field to keep the soviets out of western europe... 10s of millions dead and nobody would say they where sorry (at least then)
 

CalBear

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Serious uptick in German civilian casualties. I can think of dumber things to do than using chemical weapon on your own territory, but the list is fairly short.

The Nazis hit the Soviets, the Soviets hit back around 30-1 against civilian targets (such as they are). East Prussia's civilians, who were brutally treated in any case, now find their escape routes contaminated by Mustard and (probably) Lewisite.

It changes the outcome not a bit.
 

Bearcat

Banned
A bigger problem is this might prompt either the Japanese or the Americans (or both) too go chemical/biological in the Pacific. That might effect whether the Japanese surrender as OTL or keeps fighting, with the resulting repercussions from the American and Soviet invasions.

If Japan uses CW, the Allies will respond, first in kind, then with anthrax supplied by the British.

Japan ceases to exist. Almost total depopulation. Later generations will be properly horrified; at the time, there is only relief that the killing is over.

No postwar Japanese revival. Probably somewhat less US involvement in Asia, with possible implications for the later wars there.

Seriously, going WMD was only a recipe for extinction for the Axis.
 
A bigger problem is this might prompt either the Japanese or the Americans (or both) too go chemical/biological in the Pacific. That might effect whether the Japanese surrender as OTL or keeps fighting, with the resulting repercussions from the American and Soviet invasions.

If it's '45, no American general can talk Truman out of blowing Kyoto to kingdom come (happened OTL) and likely Tokyo with it. The rationale for not nuking Tokyo was that they needed someone to surrender - when photos start coming back from, say, Okinawa, of US Marines with mustard gas burns...surrender? That implies you haven't killed them all yet...

If WMD are used in 41-42 to clear Moscow, Leningrad, Stalingrad, and Sevastopol, particularly if Stalin goes down, we could see a temporary peace there while the rump USSR rebuilds.
 
WI when the Soviets where coming into Germany, and everything was thrown at them from young boys, to old men Hitler decided to use the German chemical weapon stockpiles?


If Hitler uses chemical weapons against the Soviets, its theoretically possible that that Churchill authorizes Operation Vegetarian. If so, then things get VERY messy.
 
But if we're talking 1945, then the cracks are already beginning to show between the West and Communism. It's not guaranteed that the Western Allies will retaliate chemically for a German biological attack on the Eastern Front. This would have an interesting effect on the Cold War, if the Allies withheld in this event. It would cause a lot of animosity between East and West.
 
But if we're talking 1945, then the cracks are already beginning to show between the West and Communism. It's not guaranteed that the Western Allies will retaliate chemically for a German biological attack on the Eastern Front. This would have an interesting effect on the Cold War, if the Allies withheld in this event. It would cause a lot of animosity between East and West.

That's Führerbunker-peace-in-the-West-thinking. The Allies were not going to do anything, even passively, to help the Germans unless you put in another POD.
 
I thought the reason why the Nazis didn't offensively use gas weapons, was due to Hitler being gassed in WWI and his fear of it?

What if B & C attacks were used in Korea?

He didn't use them because the general staff was totally opposed to their employment... at best Hitler had mixed feelings regarding their employment. The Germans had good intel on American work on lewisite, and British work on anthrax... they knew the score wasn;t in their favor
 
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