Germany obtaines the atomic bomb first, hovewer...

In early 1939, Hitler becomes interested in researchs on the fission of uranium, that it could be used to produce some sort of extremely powerfull bomb. Such a type of bomb could be used against the Soviet governement in Moscow, quickly bringing about a soviet collapse and secure the place of Germany in europe.

Access to uranium for research purposes partially motivates the abolition of Czechoslovakia.

By summer 1939, a full uranium research program is underway, the start of WW2 and strict secrecy causes some initial problems. Hitler convinces Mussolini to contribute to the project, later Japan join the efforts in exchange for Ribbentrop convincing Molotov that a sovietic invasion of Mandchukuo should be avoided. The defeat of France in 1940 and the resulting confidence of Hitler and the military is a further setback but because the project could also potentially provide much electricity to German industry, it is allowed to continue.

There is a slight boost to the project after the German declaration of war against the US and the continuation of the war against the Soviet Union.

In the meantime, the allies focuses on a plutonium design before the uranium design. In Germany, a shame nuclear projects is set up to attract allied attention, as the allies seems to be aware something is going on, although they don´t know to what extent (ultra).

Between November 1942 and February 1943, the project receives full funding for the purpose of building an atomic bomb.

Plan A: Efforts are also put into a bomber able to reach the east coast of New York, particulary New York. This bomber is to be piloted by a kamikaze, basically make a one-way trip from an aerodrome on the outskirts of Bordeaux.




On July 2nd 1944, the first bomb is completed. Because it is only one bomb and the design haven´t been tested yet, the use of it is delayed enough for the invasion of France to succede, making Plan A impossible.
In October 1944, a 2nd or 3rd atomic bomb is successfully tested. The allied governements are aware this test happened.

Because Hitler suspects a full scale allied chemical retaliation to an atomic attack, he kinda hesitates. Long range bombers are being assembled, to be launched from another Aerodrome near Norway.

As the Red Army encircles Berlin, he begin having second thoughts, before he can order an attack, someone in the SS betray him and steals the bombs, to convince the allies to leave him and his group alone. The US military is able to get the blueprints for the German uranium atomic bomb design.

A german submarine bringing a shippement of uranium to Japan decides to surrender to the allies after May 9th.

The US test íts plutonium bomb but decide to use the already tested German design rather than waste uranium.

3 atomic bombs are sent to be used against the Empire of Japan. The bomber transporting the 1st one goes down and the Japanese brings it to their own research facility in northern Korea, the two others are used against Nagasaki and Hiroshima.

The Red Army launch operation August Storm, in which the Japanese research facilities are seized. The Empire of Japan surrenders.


Of course, the US claimes it came up with both types of atomic bombs, the US governement uses all of its considerable influence to have the cooperation of other allied governements in backing up that claime.

Stalin claimes the facilities where the Germans produced their atomic bombs where throughly destroyed before the Red Army could seize them, that is not quiet the truth.
He also have the Japanese nuclear facilities, with at least one working uranium bomb, intact.
The Soviet-Union is soon to be a nuclear power but Stalin decides to keep the secret for a few more years, because unlike the US, he would be hard pressed to claime Soviet nuclear power is mostly soviet in origins and not basically taken from the hated Nazis, Fascists and Japanese imperialists.



How long would the allied governements be able to keep the secret?
 
Last edited:
i don't think germany could ever afford to be able to build a bomb before the us. even if they could, hitler would never decide to build one on a whim.
 

Plan A: Efforts are also put into a bomber able to reach the east coast of New York, particulary New York. This bomber is to be piloted by a kamikaze, basically make a one-way trip from an aerodrome on the outskirts of Bordeaux.

The Germans actually built "Huckepackbomber" for long range semi suicide attacks:
Bombers that carried a small figther for the pilot to return.
 
i don't think germany could ever afford to be able to build a bomb before the us. even if they could, hitler would never decide to build one on a whim.


It isn´t just Germany but also Italy and Japan, possibly Hungary making a contribution as well.

They also have a head start of a sort over the US and they put all their efforts into an uranium design, not purusing an uranium atom bomb and a plutonium atom bomb right after.

Well, most probable, 6 years before his nrevous breakdown (or a drug-induced one thanks to Doctor Morell).
 
This isnt going to fly for a considerable number of reasons.

First, 4 countries who werent exactly known for sharing stuff in OTL decide to share design and development of what is seen at the time as an ultimate weapon. Without holding out or stabbing one another in the back.

Building a bomb is expensive. The Uranium option is actually a lot more expensive that a plutonium bomb, because of the resources needed to separate the U-235. What are the axis NOT building instead (and what part of their war effort probably collapses as a result?)

Unless they decide to build the bomb in Japan (highly unlikely!) the development will be known to the allies, as the other secret programs were. Not only will it then recieve impressive attention from the RAF and USAAF (and the plants are simply too big and depend on enormous power supplies to put in a tunnel), if the allies think it necessary they will probably launch a suicide-type raid by commandos to destroy plant and kill scientists. You also have the issue of where to put the plant. Too far west, its in range of bombing. Too far east, its getting uncomfortably close to Russia...

The axis countries never had anything like the scientific effort the allies had available for a bomb project. Limiting the project helps a bit, but its still a lot of scientists who arent working on something else important.

Germany never came close to developing a plane that could carry a bomb to New York during the war. Come to that, neither did the allies... the B-36 was what was needed, that wasnt ready till well after the war. Eraly atomic bombs were heavy beasts.
 
On a side note if Germany did build a working bomb ready to be dropped by in the last year of the war which city would have Hitler picked.

My personal guess is a major Russian city like Moscow, but there was a reason why we decided not to drop on Japan's capital which is we needed someone to surrender to.
 
I agree that if Germany, Italy and Japan are all working on this project, evidence of it will leak. The U.S. will step up its program massively. The site, once identified, will be the target of thousand-bomber raids unless placed to the east. If it's inaccessible to raids because too far to the east, the Soviets would be told and the result would be a huge effort to get to the site and destroy it, perhaps even with U.S. and British bombers operating out of Soviet airfields in support of a huge Soviet tank spearhead.

At best, the Germans would be trading time for resources. The more resources put into the bomb (with only marginally competent "Aryan" scientists involved), the less resources for fighter planes to fend off Western bombers, tanks to fend off the T-34s, and synthetic fuels to wage ANY kind of effective battle. The U.S., on the other hand, can step up its bomb-making efforts WITHOUT cutting down on other war production. And the Russians will figure that their best response is to crush the Germans FAST--regardless of combat losses--and then capture some Nazis scientists and learn how to make a bomb later. Thus, Soviet resources won't be diverted from the strategy of attack, attack, attack to defeat the Germans on the ground as soon as possible. So the Germans get defeated months earlier than in OTL, before they can complete and test even a single bomb. (With their limited resources--resources that are constantly being whittled away by Allied air power--I can't see them making a bomb before the end of the war even under the most favorable of circumstances.)
 
I've argued before that the German Bomb project was doing as well as the Allied ones were, up to 1942, when they effectively gave up (at this point, just as the Allies were gearing up their project, the German project was transfered from the Army Ordinance Office to the Reich Research Council, where it languished with minimal priority until the end of the war).

The thing is, there was a reason they gave up. The Army Ordinance Office correctly determined that Germany was not capable of building an atomic weapon in time to influence the course of the war.

Note: The combined forces of the British Empire and the United States were not capable of building an atomic weapon in time to influence the course of the European war, with almost unlimited resources and no danger of enemy interference.

A separate point: the British would know what was going on because they had at least one spy (Paul Rosbaud) in touch with the German nuclear project.
 
i think the russians did have their own force of strategic bombers, so they could have bombed the german sites in the east and wouldnt have to rely on the us for help
 
i think the russians did have their own force of strategic bombers, so they could have bombed the german sites in the east and wouldnt have to rely on the us for help

My understanding is that the Russians had produced in quantity fighter planes and close-support fighter-bombers that were about as good as what the Germans had, by late 1943-early 1944. And since the Germans had had to concentrate on fighters to defend their cities against the "Second Front" of U.S.-British strategic bombers, the Russian planes outnumbered the German ones greatly on the Eastern Front, giving the Russians air superiority even as early as Kursk. However, I am not aware that the Russians put a lot of resources into developing strategic bombers Western style. Why should they? Strategic bombers could reach Germany from Britain but not from unoccupied portions of the Soviet Union until 1944. Why would the Russians, desperate for tanks and other front line land and air weapons, have concentrated on strategic bombers that they would not be able to use until late in the war. It would have been like putting huge resources into aircraft carriers to attack Japan after Germany had been defeated--the Soviet Union simply couldn't afford it. But if Stalin had learned the Germans were about to complete the development of an atomic bomb, he would know it would be used FIRST on Moscow, so he would have welcomed U.S. and British strategic bombers as his guests to play a vital auxiliary role in taking out the German bomb program.
 
i think the russians did have their own force of strategic bombers, so they could have bombed the german sites in the east and wouldnt have to rely on the us for help

The Sovs had a tiny handful of four-engined Pe-8 strategic bombers. But between their crappy engines, and the Red Air Force's (and Army's) tendency to shoot at anything in the air, the casualties they suffered on a handful of Berlin raids did far more damage to the Red Air Force than they did the Germans. Eventually they were withdrawn from service. Even Stalin found their performance too embarrassing.
 
Top