Germany mistakes

By 48 the other army's (especially French, British and Soviet) have completed rearmament and you cant even win the BoF...... (and you run out of cash in early 40s anyway.....)

Also, the RN, seeing the buildup, is unlikely to just there and do nothing. You wind up with a naval arms race with GB which you will lose.
 

nbcman

Donor
Lack of unified axis command structure and working together. They behaved more like strangers moving in vaguely same directions than allies. Italy jumping in at worst possible moment. Canaris and co working with the allies. Enigma and espionage networks being broken but relied on. Japan attacking US. Soviet attack had to happen due to oil.

That's only one facet of Germany's decision to attack the Soviets. The German attack on the Soviet Union had to happen because Nazis gotta Nazi - and the desired conquest of the black earth lands of the East has been in the German plans for decades.
 

JSchafer

Banned
That's only one facet of Germany's decision to attack the Soviets. The German attack on the Soviet Union had to happen because Nazis gotta Nazi - and the desired conquest of the black earth lands of the East has been in the German plans for decades.

And nazis wanted Poland and to undo Versailles but they didn’t scream automatically at British and French ambassadors and declare war. They’ve shown themselves willing to wait and plan. Germany would have ran out of operational oil reserves in October of 41. Yes they wanted their liebenaraum and to destroy SU and exterminate Slavs but oil took precedence because after October Germany can’t launch mechanized offensives anymore
 

nbcman

Donor
And nazis wanted Poland and to undo Versailles but they didn’t scream automatically at British and French ambassadors and declare war. They’ve shown themselves willing to wait and plan. Germany would have ran out of operational oil reserves in October of 41. Yes they wanted their liebenaraum and to destroy SU and exterminate Slavs but oil took precedence because after October Germany can’t launch mechanized offensives anymore
The Soviets were shipping substantial amounts of oil and other resources in 1941. If Germany didn’t attack, why would they run out of oil when they didn’t run out of oil IOTL when they were burning through their oil stocks invading the SU? Citation needed for your claim that the Germans were going run out of oil when they were receiving tens of thousands of tons of oil per month from the Soviets.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/German–Soviet_Border_and_Commercial_Agreement
 
they needed a more coherent KM not the patchwork historical fleet.
... thus the KM needed to start with their planned class of minelayers (half of which were to also serve as training ships) and a large u-boat flotilla first.

The British found a way around German mines during the Phoney War, so I don't see how much help more minelayers would've been. I do agree with the U-Boat flotilla though.

they had to press a variety of ships into service as minelayers, so not efficient or as effective as the planned class.

for another example, they pressed large (5,000t or greater) valuable merchant ships into Sperrbrecher (mine clearing) role whereas later in the war they found a 1,700t trawler type vessel functioned just as well!
 

JSchafer

Banned
The Soviets were shipping substantial amounts of oil and other resources in 1941. If Germany didn’t attack, why would they run out of oil when they didn’t run out of oil IOTL when they were burning through their oil stocks invading the SU? Citation needed for your claim that the Germans were going run out of oil when they were receiving tens of thousands of tons of oil per month from the Soviets.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/German–Soviet_Border_and_Commercial_Agreement

If you have 10 000 liters of oil, you use a thousand a day and buy 700 how long can you let? Germany did buy oil but even with Romanian oil and captured supplies it would have ran out by that date. Just because you buy doesn’t mean you buy enough. Germany didn’t run out because they overran and captured Soviet oil supplies which were moved forward. First year of conflict Germans attacked along the entire front, the north center and south. Second along a single front. And third it was all gambled on a single battle at Kursk. Despite having more tanks than in previous years. Oil. Oil limits everything Germany does. When they attacked in the west in 44 the vital target was Belgian and North French allied oil depots.
 
If you have 10 000 liters of oil, you use a thousand a day and buy 700 how long can you let? Germany did buy oil but even with Romanian oil and captured supplies it would have ran out by that date. Just because you buy doesn’t mean you buy enough. Germany didn’t run out because they overran and captured Soviet oil supplies which were moved forward. First year of conflict Germans attacked along the entire front, the north center and south. Second along a single front. And third it was all gambled on a single battle at Kursk. Despite having more tanks than in previous years. Oil. Oil limits everything Germany does. When they attacked in the west in 44 the vital target was Belgian and North French allied oil depots.

So trade for more of it. Mein Kampf made Barbraosa inevitable. Hitler really wanted to destroy "JuedoBolshivism". and he can't do that sitting in Berlin.
 

nbcman

Donor
If you have 10 000 liters of oil, you use a thousand a day and buy 700 how long can you let? Germany did buy oil but even with Romanian oil and captured supplies it would have ran out by that date. Just because you buy doesn’t mean you buy enough. Germany didn’t run out because they overran and captured Soviet oil supplies which were moved forward. First year of conflict Germans attacked along the entire front, the north center and south. Second along a single front. And third it was all gambled on a single battle at Kursk. Despite having more tanks than in previous years. Oil. Oil limits everything Germany does. When they attacked in the west in 44 the vital target was Belgian and North French allied oil depots.
Ok. You didn’t provide a citation that the Germans were going to run out of oil by Fall 1941 without attacking the Soviets and you’ve followed that up with another unsubstantiated claim that they captured substantial quantities of POL during the invasion.

Germany could have made by with less oil (although they had 1350 thousand tons of oil in June 1941) by slowing their operation tempo but the massive amount of grains delivered by the Soviets allowed the Germans to avoid cutting back rations in Occupied Europe. See my previous citation for more information.
 
Are you implying he was a man of his word?

No, that he was a complete psycho who was obsessed with the "Jewish Bolshevik threat". He could delay his obsession for a while but, eventually he would return to it. You can't say his hatred of Jews was fake.
 

BooNZ

Banned
No, that he was a complete psycho who was obsessed with the "Jewish Bolshevik threat". He could delay his obsession for a while but, eventually he would return to it. You can't say his hatred of Jews was fake.
I don't pretend to understand the thought processes of historical figures, but it is interesting how many state Hitler could not be trusted to abide by any inconvenient treaty, but assume Mein Kampf and the associated atrocities were hardwired/ written in stone to take place in almost all circumstances.
 
I don't pretend to understand the thought processes of historical figures, but it is interesting how many state Hitler could not be trusted to abide by any inconvenient treaty, but assume Mein Kampf and the associated atrocities were hardwired/ written in stone to take place in almost all circumstances.

Because it was his psychological obsession? The man was clearly driven by hatred. You don't need to be a psychologist to see that! Not everything in Mein Kampf was written in stone but his hatred of Jews and Slavs clearly was, almost everything he did shows that!
 
The Soviets were shipping substantial amounts of oil and other resources in 1941. If Germany didn’t attack, why would they run out of oil when they didn’t run out of oil IOTL when they were burning through their oil stocks invading the SU? Citation needed for your claim that the Germans were going run out of oil when they were receiving tens of thousands of tons of oil per month from the Soviets.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/German–Soviet_Border_and_Commercial_Agreement

they also nearly doubled the amount of fuel they were burning thru when they invaded, the invasion itself almost became a rationale for needing the oil of Baku!

my speculation is that they could have invaded Romania along with Hungary and Bulgaria to gain ALL the oil production (they only ever got half) ... as alternative
 
Errrrrr....
Without the early conquests they run out of the ability to pay for anything aboard except for by barter (at the same time as GB/FR are reaming at a high rate with World/US trade/industry) and they also cant pay back internal loans making them even more popular at home.

Good thing your not an economist; everything achieved was with the GD credit that dragged Germany and many of their European trading partners out of the Great Depression, which made them pretty solid trading partners through out the war.

The growing debt was recycled and controlled through out the war, since Hitler controlled the Reichsbank and passed this debt on to the occupied territories.

As it was they had a functioning trade arrangement with China through the 1930s ; exchanging for Wolfram for armaments and trading Another 2500 aircraft sales in the late 1930s could have secured another 15,000 tons needed to consume 5000 tons per year through 1945. Going with Japan offered them little to help their European struggle. Going to war with USA & USSR was the biggest own goal in history.
 

JSchafer

Banned
So trade for more of it. Mein Kampf made Barbraosa inevitable. Hitler really wanted to destroy "JuedoBolshivism". and he can't do that sitting in Berlin.

Why would Stalin trade enough Oil to Germans to cover their all needs and to make himself disposable? Better to keep them dependent and short the oil so the prices spike. Not every day you get to trade engineering for some crude. In fact Romania dropped their oil production from 8.7 million tons of oil in 36 to 5.2 in 41 in great part for political reasons and for better trade with Germans. In 1939, peacetime Germany imports 60% of their domestic oil. By 1940 Germany uses up 9 558 000 tons of oil more than they produce or import. In 1941 Walther Funk has managed to curb oil consumption in the general economy to the point that Germany was using only 18% of its peacetime oil usage yet it wasn't even close to enough. When the October 1941 deadline was crafted it was stated that Germany could only sustain a two month offensive with the oil they have if they go on an offensive rather than let the opportunity pass by, stated by Eduard Wagner in March of 41. In May of 41 Shell suggested immediate demotorization of Wehrmacht forces in order to curb oil consumption. And that was with 10 motorized Divisions that Germany fielded. All of this is in Wages of destruction.

Ok. You didn’t provide a citation that the Germans were going to run out of oil by Fall 1941 without attacking the Soviets and you’ve followed that up with another unsubstantiated claim that they captured substantial quantities of POL during the invasion.

Germany could have made by with less oil (although they had 1350 thousand tons of oil in June 1941) by slowing their operation tempo but the massive amount of grains delivered by the Soviets allowed the Germans to avoid cutting back rations in Occupied Europe. See my previous citation for more information.

See above.
 
Spring 41 was when the global bankers had the secret meeting in Switzerland to fund Barbarossa....hmmm .
 
Good thing your not an economist; everything achieved was with the GD credit that dragged Germany and many of their European trading partners out of the Great Depression, which made them pretty solid trading partners through out the war.

Sorry, I don't think the actual trade relations of Germany during the war are any indication of how good trade partners they were.

Distant countries could not trade with Germany - the Allied blockade saw to that.
Close, European countries could trade with germany - in the full awareness that there were Panzerdivisionen right over the broder, if not already present on their territory. So yes, they accepted what little carrot the Germans could offer; it doesn't mean they would have, if Germany had not had the big stick in the other hand.
Note, for instance, how the Swedish trade shifts apace with the war's fortunes.

The growing debt was recycled and controlled through out the war, since Hitler controlled the Reichsbank and passed this debt on to the occupied territories.

That's true, and the other poster is also right that the internal debt was not paid back. State bonds' maturations were arbitrarily postponed, leaving German investors and savers waiting.
 
It was more of a feature of the British global empire - Britain was well situated and equiped to manage a global empire, but the same set-up was not well suited to large scale mass destruction on the continent. If you don't have the shipping available to essentially access your assets from around the globe, then you need to have the currency/transferable wealth then enables you to access resources from where you can. By the end of 1940, Britain no longer had sufficient acceptable currency to access resources to continue the war on ordinary terms. By comparison, companies with ample assets are frequently forced into liquidation because those are unable to pay debts on a timely basis due to liquidity issues.
Britain can't pay for things it needs to continue the war and it does not have the shipping resources to substitute such things - for the purposes of fighting a war, they are broke.

Evidence this none sense please
 
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