Germany gives technology to Japan

My POD is that von Ribbentrop became German Foreign Minister in 1936 and immediately persuaded Hitler that giving technology to Japan was in Germany's interest because it would make Japan stronger and more aggressive which would distract America, Britain, France and the USSR from opposing Germany. The only conditions were that the absence of payment should be kept secret, nothing should be passed to other countries and that details should not be transmitted by radio (because Germany was worried that codes could be broken). Naturally, Germany requested that Japan give them access to some Japanese discoveries but trusted them to show fairness (yes that really is ASB).

Examples of the sort of information transfered before September 1939 might include the 88 mm Flak 36, German welding techniques and armour compositions, the DB 601 aero-engine, radars (Seetakt, Freya and Wurzburg), hydrophones and sonar, aircraft radios and the Ju-88 design. Japan was interested in some of these as a German 88 mm supplied to China was captured and reverse engineered. Also the DB-601 was produced in Japan but the fuel injection system was never supplied and the metallurgy was not copied causing bearing failures.

We could imagine air dropped torpedoes and the cavity magnetron coming to Germany. If collaboration took off, we could imagine a Bf-109 unit demonstrating energy tactics in Japan in summer 1939 in return for the pilots for Graf Zeppelin being trained to land on Kaga and Soryu.

Would any of this produce interesting consequences? Are there other suggestions for technologies to exchange?
 

Anaxagoras

Banned
There's MUCH more to this kind of thing that just being handed a technical blueprint. For any significant impact, you'd have to have a series of PODs that change the way Japanese industry procures military equipment altogether.

Furthermore, the Japanese didn't really care about heavy armor because it didn't suit their tactical doctrine or strategic situation. And they didn't focus on air defenses as much as the Germans for the very sound reason (until 1944) that the Home Islands were too far away from potential enemies that air raids were unfeasible.

If the Germans had shown up with blueprints for a lot of their equipment, the Japanese would likely have just shrugged their shoulders.
 
I agree. The Japanese didnt have the industrial base to take advantage of the German tech. However, German submarine plans could have been useful, but not really until later in the war.
 
.. should not be transmitted by radio (because Germany was worried that codes could be broken).
Why were there worried - that's the ASB part - any concerns about security e.g. convoys to N. Africa were assumed to be spies/loose talk in Italian ports, even the German Navy were perplexed at how Allied aircraft were always in the right place at the right time to catch U-boats - but didn't seriously think enigma was conpromised


..... and the cavity magnetron coming to Germany.

From Japan!?? When and how did they get it from the British? Germany, probably would have had it before Japan, in the belly of a shot down Stirling or Halifax.

I don't see why they would 'give' them away. An exchange of intel material and equipement, yes - but only when Japan joins the Axis. But then, that happened anyway. How much 'exchange' was there between Germany & Italy - not a lot!
 
..... and the cavity magnetron coming to Germany.

From Japan!?? When and how did they get it from the British? Germany, probably would have had it before Japan, in the belly of a shot down Stirling or Halifax.

The Japanese and the Russians had invented the cavity magnetron independently (my first Google hit was http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1O129-cavitymagnetron.html but you can find others. The Russians (N. F. Alekseev and D. E. Malyarov) had even published the details!

I don't see why they would 'give' them away. An exchange of intel material and equipement, yes - but only when Japan joins the Axis. But then, that happened anyway. How much 'exchange' was there between Germany & Italy - not a lot!
The reason has to be strategic calculation. Ribbentrop is the highest ranking NAZI likely to make that calculation (but did he understand that Britain was a clear enemy before his stint as ambassador?).
Some replies have suggested that the Japanese were not interested. To repeat several captured weapons were reverse engineered and used http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_99_88_mm_AA_Gun, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_4_75_mm_AA_Gun,
and both army and navy independently copied the Browning 0.5 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ho-103_machine_gun and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_3_machine_gun.
The other question was whether the technology could have been used. The obvious example is the DB-601 series. My guess is that the problems arose because the Germans did not give sufficient help. I suspect that had Japanese engineers worked for a few months at DB, the problems would have been solved.
 
As said it is a bit harder than just giving them blue prints...And Germany and Japan aren't exactly neighbours.
It woud require a continued effort of Germans working in Japan and teaching them. It couldj't be kept secret.
 
in OTL was a technolgy Transfere from Thrid Reich to imperial Japan
but unly German high tech for Commodities and gold
durnig 1944 to 1945 submarines (germans, japanese, italian)
transported Uranium, parts of Me 163, Me 262
alot of the submarines were sunk by the Allies
but parts of Me 163, Me 262 and some fotos arrived in Japan
this was enough to bulid Nakajima J9Y, Nakajima Ki-201, Mitsubishi J8M.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakajima_J9Y
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakajima_Ki-201
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_J8M

it intressthing wat happen if Thrid Reich and imperial Japan started this exchange much earlier !

but wat can Japan offer at Third Reich ?
there is this terrible possibility:
biological, chemical warfare and Nuclear weapon research Data !

Japan work on Bioweapons and chemical warfare under Unit 731
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731
Imperial Japanese Navy had project F-Go
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_nuclear_weapons_program
 
As said it is a bit harder than just giving them blue prints...And Germany and Japan aren't exactly neighbours.
It woud require a continued effort of Germans working in Japan and teaching them. It couldj't be kept secret.
There would be no problem if other powers knew that the Japanese were receiving German technology. As the Germans are aiming to distract Britain from Europe, it is even desirable that Britain finds out. However, the Germans would not want the British to find details of their radars etc. from Japan. They might also prefer if everyone believed that the Japanese were buying the technology as otherwise it would damage German relations with potential enemies of Japan (almost everyone!).

One obvious additional area of technology to transfer in 1936-7 was oil and aviation fuel synthesis from coal. In theory, Germany could also explain their methods for attacking superenciphered codes (such as RN codes or JN25) or American strip ciphers.
 
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