germany gives away its navy

Mrstrategy

Banned
what if Germany gave way its navy to neutral nations secretly after it lost in 1918 to avoid giving it to the allies
 

Mrstrategy

Banned
Turning the ownership of the ships to a different goverment /putting a another goverment flag on a ship
 

Deleted member 1487

There is no way German naval officers would slink off to a neutral country given what just happened, they knew if they didn't have something to show for the huge investment in a major surface fleet post-war they would never be rebuilt. So that means the attempted death ride and the resulting mutiny. If say the mutiny took over during a fleet sortie and sailed to Sweden to be interned, perhaps then you could say the German fleet fulfilled the OP by giving themselves up to a friendly neutral to avoid being a prize for the Allies...but everyone knew that that wouldn't stand and even Sweden would turn over the fleet to the Allies post-war.
 

Delta Force

Banned
Austria-Hungary actually attempted to do this with its Navy. From Wikipedia:

In 1918, in order to avoid having to give the fleet to the victors, the Austrian Emperor handed down the entire Austro-Hungarian Navy and merchant fleet, with all harbours, arsenals and shore fortifications to the new State of Slovenes, Croats and Serbs.The state of SCS was proclaimed officially on 29 October 1918. They in turn sent diplomatic notes to the governments of France, the United Kingdom, Italy, the United States and Russia, to notify them that the State of SCS was not at war with any of them and that the Council had taken over the entire Austro-Hungarian fleet. Austria asked for an armistice on 29 October.

However, on 1 November 1918 the navy underwent an attack at its moorings by the Italian Regia Marina: supposedly without knowing about the Emperor's move, two men of the Regia Marina, Raffaele Paolucci and Raffaele Rossetti, rode a primitive manned torpedo (nicknamed the Mignatta or "leech") into the Austro-Hungarian naval base at Pola. Using limpet mines, they then sank the anchored Viribus Unitis, with considerable loss of life, as well as the freighter Wien.[11] The French navy commandeered the new dreadnought SMS Prinz Eugen, which they took to France and later used it for target practice in the Atlantic, where it was destroyed.[3]
 
Would any neutral have accepted it?

Iirc the Allies' original proposal was for the HSF to be interned in a neutral port, but this had to be changed to internment at Scapa Flow because no neutral was willing to take on the job.
 

NoMommsen

Donor
Would any neutral have accepted it?

Iirc the Allies' original proposal was for the HSF to be interned in a neutral port, but this had to be changed to internment at Scapa Flow because no neutral was willing to take on the job.
I don't know , if and then in what kind neutral states might be asked for :
possibility one :
Would you please be so kind to have an eye over the german HSF, until we have sorted peace conditions ?
possibility two :
Do you dare to keep, what its rendered our price/prey of war ?
(a bit exaggerated for ... clarification what's meant)
 
Interesting question. My first impression is that t giving away the navy would be aimed at the British, but the British were friendlier to the Germans at Versailles than were the French. Give the navy to the French the French will just use that as leverage against the British to extract more concessions from the Germans. Give it to the British the British will make sure it gets scrapped, (or allow it to scuttle). Give it to the Americans is exactly like giving it to the British. That leaves Italy and Japan - the most difficult countries to give any ships to, or the Soviet Union, for which there was no point as the Allies would just take St. Petersburg and take it back. (Minor neutrals would simply turn the ships over to the Allies).
 
Would any neutral have accepted it?

Iirc the Allies' original proposal was for the HSF to be interned in a neutral port, but this had to be changed to internment at Scapa Flow because no neutral was willing to take on the job.

No because no neutral country would have considered angering the winner coalition, and Britain in particular.Giving away the fleet would have rightly been considered as a kind of fraud. Britain wanted to end the german challenge to its naval supremacy. This was the winner's law.
 
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