Germany gets to keep Colonies

Onyx

Banned
So WI Germany was allowed to keep the Africans colonies of Cameroon, Tanzania, Namibia in Africa and Wilhelmsland (Northern New Guinea) in Asia? Hitler did hated Africans as well but as much as Jews, so could've Hitler forced drafted Africans into the German Army and heavily industrialize the colonies to invade the Nearby British and French colonies? This could've give more cooperation with the Italians and help them slow down supplies in North Africa from the British
That goes the same of New Guinea, so the Germans would've cooperated with the Japanese and would've annexed New Guinea and would've started an invasion on Australia while Japan is doing its job in China and Southeast asia.
 
I take it other than the colonies nothing else really changes? Otherwise this milder treaty might cause no Nazi rise to power.
 
First you need to come up with a way for Germany to remain a colonial power, but still have a situation arise that would allow the Nazis to come into power. Also if the Germans did try to invade other colonies in Africa or even attack Australia they would probably lose rather quickly as they would become blockaded once any war broke out. furthermore the drain on their manpower would probably have Germany suffer defeat even sooner. In short, if Nazi Germany kept its colonies it might allow them to have an even more mechanized army, but once war breaks out they will wither and die, possible sucking in more resources than they provided.
 

Onyx

Banned
First you need to come up with a way for Germany to remain a colonial power, but still have a situation arise that would allow the Nazis to come into power. Also if the Germans did try to invade other colonies in Africa or even attack Australia they would probably lose rather quickly as they would become blockaded once any war broke out. furthermore the drain on their manpower would probably have Germany suffer defeat even sooner. In short, if Nazi Germany kept its colonies it might allow them to have an even more mechanized army, but once war breaks out they will wither and die, possible sucking in more resources than they provided.

Not to mention the Africans would rebel against the Germans due to the Racism and things like that, if they did held there colonies by the time they invade Russia, capitulate France, and start the battle for britain, they might've helped the Italians by attacking the British colonies, Vichy France still had there colonial possesions but with Free France in the Southern African colonies, Cameroon most likely would've fall
Namibia would've hold it longer since it would've provided support in South America if something happens there, but would've fall by the time the invasion of France, since South Africa is way more mighty compared to them
Tanzania, idk, it is close to the italians and might've gain some trade by the Japs, but it is surrounded by a ton of British colonies, if Italy and Germany helped each other in taking over Kenya, they could've gained a chance in defending there possesions until the US steps in.

Overall the African colonies would've been destroyed once the US loses there **** from the Japs and invades Africa, but it would've slowed down things in North Africa though.

Not quite sure about New Guinea, they might've taken the whole island, but would've been retaken by the Australians, but they would've called the Japanese to help them once Australia invades, and New Guinea becomes a Japanese possesion
 

The Sandman

Banned
If Germany keeps its colonies, there won't be any Hitler, because Paul von Lettow-Vorbeck will personally fly an askari army into Berlin via zeppelin to overthrow his ass before the ashes of the Reichstag have had time to cool.
 
^ I had that thought too, but my other thought might be to simply show why Hitler's policies are idiotic. Tanzania, Cameroon and Namibia all have plentiful natural resources, perhaps Lettow-Vorbeck would have said "OK Adolf, you don't want the Jews in Europe? Send them here, ya racist jackass."

Hence, by the time of Kristallnacht, just about all of Germany's half million or so Jews have gone to Africa, split about 40/40/20 between Southwest Africa, German East Africa and Kamerun. This inspires recession-hammered Europeans in all of the colonial powers where their superiority is assured (i.e. - British to their colonies in British East Africa and Rhodesia, Portuguese to Angola and Mozambique, French to Malagasy and much of West Africa).

Hitler grows to be insanely despotic, but he knows that in Africa and among the Germans in Africa Lettow-Vorbeck has stature that Hitler would have a hard time touching. The Jews tossed out of Africa doesn't bother Hitler - it's cheaper to take their stuff than kill them.

After Munich, when the world has had its full of Hitler, Lettow-Vorbeck declares the German Colonies in Africa the African Federation and makes them independent of Germany. Hitler by now has a huge army but doesn't hope to have the amphibious capacity to drop an army thousands of miles away, so he can't do much about it. Lettow-Vorbeck's Free Germans and Askaris fight with the Allies. The much-increased European populations in other African colonies leads to many different squadrons of the Allies, including a British African Army (The King's African Army) and divisions from several of the allies.

During the war, Hitler's genocide becomes obvious, and Jews flee into the Soviet Union. Stalin doesn't really want them either, and so they in a great many cases use the USSR as a mere stopover, bound for someplace else. They have few options, and Africa is the better one to most.

Efforts start shortly after the war to improve the education and reduce the prejudice towards black Africans in the colonies of all the colonies, as well as the African Federation. Ravaged post-war Europe is such a mess that Africa is appealing to a great Many Brits, French, Germans and Portuguese head off to the colonies between 1945 and 1960ish.

After the war, the efforts of the Askaris and Jews leads to a growing program to educate and improve the lives of black Africans in the Federation, which remains white-ruled until the early 1970s. This forces similar efforts in the other colonial powers' as well.

Rhodesia, unified as one entity, becomes a commonwealth partner in 1955 and an independent nation in 1959. Ghana becomes independent in 1957, Kenya follows in 1960, Nigeria and others in the 1960s. Portugal chooses a different route, offering to make Angola and Mozambique full overseas territories of Portugal. This happens in 1957, but the colonies become independent completely in 1975 after the revolution in Lisbon.

The African Federations' educated peoples and increasingly intelligent workforce begins to take advantage of their natural resources, particularly in the Tanganiyka and Namibia provinces. The discovery of diamonds in 1954 leads to growth speeding up.

By 1960, the white population of Africa numbers just a hair over 20 million, about 2/5 of which live in South Africa. The Federation has 3.1 million white members, over half of which are of Jewish descent. German is the predominant language in the Federation, which is now at 75% literacy rate and climbing.

Rhodesia is the first African nation with a significant white minority to move towards majority rule, their first all race elections (with multiple voter rolls) happening in 1966. Rhodesia eases into majority rule by the early 1980s.

The Federation is led by Lettow-Vorbeck until his death in 1964. His death sets off a major power struggle, but democracy prevails here. The first elections in 1965 are only for whites and Askari military members, but this spreads to educated blacks in 1970 and eventually to full majority rule in 1980.

South Africa's infamous apartheid gets off the ground, but doesn't last long. By the early 1960s, the apartheid system (such as it is) is crumbling. Like the other African nations, majority rule comes to be by the early 1980s.

Africa in 2009 here is much, much better off than OTL. The Federation and South Africa are close to first world status, Rhodesia, Kenya, Uganda and the Portuguese colonies are at mid-level or so, comparable to Argentina or Brazil today. AIDS appears in the 1980s and is still a scourge, but it kills far less people than in OTL. Waterbourne diseases have been all but eradicated. The wealthier nations have long ago began helping the brutally held Congolese territories for economic, health and security reasons. Narrow-gauge railways and paved highways link all of the major nations of Sub-Saharan Africa.
 
We're not very clear on a PoD here. Germany is not keeping East Africa because we need it for our railway. They're not keeping South-West, aka "supply base for Boer nutbars" is we have anything to do with it. They're not keeping Wilhelmsland if the Aussies have anything to do with it. And Togo and Cameroon are hardly worth having. The only way for Germany to keep its colonies is some kind of military stalemate/CP victory, which kind of invalidates all this Hitler stuff. Germany would make absolutely zero (0) concessions in Europe for the sake of its colonies. None. Danzig would be worth twelve Tanganyikas.
 
The POD has to be during WWI with a different version of Versailles. You would have to butterfly away the severity of Germany's depression in the twenties and hence, the prominence of Hitler and the Nazis. The Germans build their colones to become a world trading power. When their military-industrial complex grows in the thirties, they strike French interests not in Europe but in Indo-China, Vietnam. Now you have a German presence in the Pacific.
 
The POD has to be during WWI with a different version of Versailles. You would have to butterfly away the severity of Germany's depression in the twenties and hence, the prominence of Hitler and the Nazis. The Germans build their colones to become a world trading power. When their military-industrial complex grows in the thirties, they strike French interests not in Europe but in Indo-China, Vietnam. Now you have a German presence in the Pacific.

As said, you can't just handwave your "differant Versailles". Germany really didn't care about keeping its colonies. I completely fail to understand why colonies put Germany in such a position to become a "world trading power", and am most irritated by your apparent belief that the rise of a military industrial complex and military agression ees eeneveetable!

Okay, so for nor terribly good reason, it's war now. Uh, tanganyika ain't near Vietnam.
 
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