Germany fights on from Norway

At the end of World War II in Europe, German troops still held almost all of Norway. There were still several hundred thousand German troops there, though the units with substantial combat power had probably for the most part been combed out and sent to more active fronts. Some German commanders in Norway apparently thought about fighting on after the official surrender, but were quickly replaced by people willing to follow the surrender order.

What if they had tried to fight on? Maybe Hitler decides in late March/early April to make a last stand there and transfers material, men, and key scientists there as parts of German are overrun. Maybe he even goes there himself.

Obviously the Germans aren't going to hold out in Norway long-term, if for no other reason than the fact that they wouldn't have an industrial base to keep their army supplied. At the same time, if the Allies have to gear up for an amphibious landing, that would take time. They would rush the issue as much as possible because the Soviets would be moving into the north of Norway (as they did historically).

An interesting aspect of this: Norway would end up with a lot of the German scientists and exotic technology/prototypes, at least in the short term. It would also end up with its infrastructure devastated by the fighting.

Would the German rank and file fight on in these circumstances? Against the Soviets, yeah. Against the west? Hard to say. With Hitler there and an influx of hardcore Nazis, they probably wouldn't have a lot of choice.

How long could the Germans hold out in Norway? Not long. I would give it maybe three or four months at the absolute most, and that mainly because of the time it would take the allies to gear up for a large-scale amphibious landing. Three months would put the end of the battle for Norway into early August. Maybe they collapse a few days after the Japanese surrender.

What do you think? Plausible? Any implications I'm missing?
 
Unfortunately (or perhaps unfortunately) there are two ways this could pan out. Hitler could give it a lukewarm approval and it would end up like Werewolf. Or, he could Pull a Hitler and order all available resources to Norway. Now, by '45 the Germans were pretty much running out of aqnything, so the situation in the Fatherland itself would go pear shaped pretty fast-quite a bit of the German men and materials might not make it to Norway. Plus, there would be Denmark-pretty much impossible to hold, and an easy jump to Norway, especially with the massive Allied industrial power, and the Soviets coming from the north. I' say the Germans give out maybe aweek or two later than OTL.
 
Northern and southern Norway? Very nice, I like!

An interesting aspect of this: Norway would end up with a lot of the German scientists and exotic technology/prototypes, at least in the short term. It would also end up with its infrastructure devastated by the fighting.

According to newhistory, those never existed, solely factless conspiracy theory. German science was outdated already back in 1941 and falling back rapidly in every single field. Never mind about V2s and that the war only ended in 1945. :rolleyes: :D
 
I would give German holdouts in Norway up to three or four months, just because of the logistics of putting together an Allied landing and then fighting across over a thousand miles south to north. Of course multiple landings would be possible, and if the Nazis were weak enough improvised landings would be more possible, though putting together an opposed landing is never going to be trivial.
 
Maybe more Soviet ionfluence in Norway makes sure they don't join NATO later on. I think the northern part is too sparsely populated to form a viable Communist state. There's also no real support for it like there was in Eastern Europe with its history of ineffective monarchies and failed democracies up to 1940.
 
Wouldnt the norwegians themselves actually try and rise up, and what about Sweden?

It was my understanding that the Swedish Government quietly informed General Falkenhorst that if he resisted an Allied landing Sweden would declare war/open it's borders to the Allies. This would allow a back door into Norway rendering it's vaunted defenses moot. And Sweden had a good army. At least enough to defend itself from the Germans. Also, no Waffen SS in Norway. How long could the Gestapo keep control of things in such a scenario, even with Hitler there, if Germany is overrun. Second July 20th? Historically, German Army units found themselves only too happy to surrender to Norwegian Army reservists just back into uniform, just so long as they didn't fall into the hands of the partisans.:eek:

BTW, an outright invasion of Norway by the Soviets is a non-starter. Logistically impossible. Rough terrain, mountains, no ports north of Narvik, no rail lines, no navy. Can't be done.
 
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I doubt that many German ships are going to get to Norway considering the allies domination of the skies, Western naval dominance in the Atlantic and Soviet domination of the Baltic. I presume the allies will just starve them out and/or pressure Sweden to let their divisions cross through their territory. Of course it's not unlikely that Sweden joins the effort to liberate their Scandinavian brothers anyway if they managed to hold out for a long period of time.
 
Interesting bit of trivia: starting in 1943 Sweden trained 15,000 Norwegian exiles and organized most of them into combat formations. At first they were officially police forces, but toward the end of the war they got artillery.

The Allies did have contingency plans for liberating Norway and Denmark, and Sweden was swinging toward a more open pro-Allied stance as Germany got weaker. There were contingency plans for Sweden to enter the war if necessary as well as for Allied planes to use Swedish bases. As to how well the Swedish army would have done against the Germans, it probably depends on how demoralized and disorganized the Germans were. The Swedes had around 700 light tanks, which would have been pretty much curb-stomp material against Panthers or Panzer 3/4s. How many modern German tanks they would have actually faced is another issue. Probably not many.
 
I doubt that many German ships are going to get to Norway considering the allies domination of the skies, Western naval dominance in the Atlantic and Soviet domination of the Baltic. I presume the allies will just starve them out and/or pressure Sweden to let their divisions cross through their territory. Of course it's not unlikely that Sweden joins the effort to liberate their Scandinavian brothers anyway if they managed to hold out for a long period of time.

I don't know about the ships, but some boats might be able to make it:

http://uboat.net/types/xxi.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_xxi_u-boat

http://uboat.net/types/xxiii.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Type_XXIII_submarine

One Elektroboot actually had a firing solution on HMS Norfolk, completely undetected by the escort, and could have sunk her easily, if only the government hadn't already surrendered.

The few that could sail would make things extremely interesting for the Allied invasion convoys.
 
I don't know about the ships, but some boats might be able to make it:

http://uboat.net/types/xxi.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_xxi_u-boat

http://uboat.net/types/xxiii.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Type_XXIII_submarine

One Elektroboot actually had a firing solution on HMS Norfolk, completely undetected by the escort, and could have sunk her easily, if only the government hadn't already surrendered.

The few that could sail would make things extremely interesting for the Allied invasion convoys.

They may cause a disruption but the amount of troops and supplies they can carry to Norway is very limited and it will be basically impossibly to transport armour, artillery or planes using them.
 

Markus

Banned
Yes, and how far to any strategic objectives did they get?:rolleyes:

They got to the ones they came for and if they had wanted to they could have leapfrogged south along the cost. With air and naval supremacy it would not have been difficult at all.


The Swedes had around 700 light tanks, which would have been pretty much curb-stomp material against Panthers or Panzer 3/4s. How many modern German tanks they would have actually faced is another issue. Probably not many.

Acc. to von Adler there were no modern tanks in norway at all, just some Pz.III and Stug. He also says that the infantry´s quality had deteriorated significantly because many experienced soldiers had been withdrawn to replace losses elsewhere.
 
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