Germany Doesn't Betray Russia

Eurofed

Banned
Oh, but that intruding little island must always be done away with somehow in furious German-Americawanks. It's just narrative housekeeping.

Not only that. Giving the bloody "we hate Europe" British nationalists a nice Gotterdammerung of their petty Empire, and letting it be carved up between USA and Euro powers gives a shiver of geek guilty pleasure all its own. Not so much as reworking WWII to let US and German-led Euro troops blast down the Commie hordes shoulder to shoulder, but almost.
:D;):cool:

Although I suspect the apex of Brit-screwing pleasure might be to make USA, Sweden, and Italy join the CPs in WWI, without annoying fascism around to mar their glorious victory. Oh what a nifty Brit-Gotterdammerung would it be.
 

Eurofed

Banned
You do realise what I'm obligated to do in this situation, right?

*Drapes enormous Union Jack over self, sets "Land of Hope and Glory playing", improvises hasty barricade, takes up tommy gun, clears throat:kissingheart:

Wi shall go oahn! To the end! We shall fight in France, we shall fight on the seas and oceans, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air! We shall defend our Island, whatever the cost may be. We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall nevah! Surrender!

Germany and Italy get some lucky butterflies, coopt Vichy France as an equal Axis partner, and USSR as a treacherous temporary one, too. Their uber-Axis with Japan wipes out the British forces from North Africa, Middle East, and South East Asia, India rebels under INA leadership, the British people eventually acknowledges their desperate situation and the empty megalomania behind Churchill's braggadocio, and goes Germany 1918. Churchill dies trying to pull a Cromwell coup, George VI abdicates, Lloyd George and Edward VIII take over, Axis paratroopers land in southern Britain exploiting the revolutionary chaos, Britain surrenders, Canada, Australia, and NZ panic and seek protection by joining the USA, South Africa becomes an Axis client, India an opportunist nationalist neutral. Take that, Churchill.
 
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Why does everyone asume that Stalin will attack? IOTL he not only sent large amount of grain and other raw materials but also didn't take any countermeasures to german planes spying Russian territory.

Because he knew he wasn't ready.

The only reason he signed the M-R pact is because that Germany could only have a chance of defeating the Soviets with one front. Stalin counted on this which is why he was so suprised when Hitler atacked even if you consider that his theory was right in the end.

Hitler of course had nowhere near the same intelligence as Stalin with him signing the M-R pact believing it would keep him from a 2 front war of course with Britain not a threat in his idiotic insane eyes he went ahead with it anyway.

By 1943 the Soviet Union would be ready to attack and unless Germany somehow knocks out Britain and keeps America out you can count on Stalin attacking.
 
Assuming that Stalin doesn't invade Germany, Hitler has a chance at conquering Britain. If he doesn't freak out and divert all bombers away from military targets to bomb London, that is. Germany did have a greater industrial capacity, and if they put that capacity to use destroying Britain's industry, they would eventually win. Fifty-fifty chance that the US gets to Britain in time to save it, with the Japanese and all.
 
For all of Stalin's proclivities he was not a gambler. If Germany never attacks I very much doubt he would attack Hilter while Hitler is strong.
 
Germany and Italy get some lucky butterflies, coopt Vichy France as an equal Axis partner, and USSR as a treacherous temporary one, too. Their uber-Axis with Japan wipes out the British forces from North Africa, Middle East, and South East Asia, India rebels under INA leadership, the British people eventually acknowledges their desperate situation and the empty megalomania behind Churchill's braggadocio, and goes Germany 1918. Churchill dies trying to pull a Cromwell coup, George VI abdicates, Lloyd George and Edward VIII take over, Axis paratroopers land in southern Britain exploiting the revolutionary chaos, Britain surrenders, Canada, Australia, and NZ panic and seek protection by joining the USA, South Africa becomes an Axis client, India an opportunist nationalist neutral. Take that, Churchill.

Meanwhile the largest ENGLISH speaking nation in the world is just twiddling their thumbs having fun :p
 
Not only that. Giving the bloody "we hate Europe" British nationalists a nice Gotterdammerung of their petty Empire, and letting it be carved up between USA and Euro powers gives a shiver of geek guilty pleasure all its own. Not so much as reworking WWII to let US and German-led Euro troops blast down the Commie hordes shoulder to shoulder, but almost.
:D;):cool:

Besing 'stensibly plawsbel timelines on fantsies of nationalistic revenge is considahed bahed fawm, ole-bhoy. *sips tea* Y'see, der-bhoy, heeh in Britain, we dante go een f'this "Oh, but the Jahmans were just misunderstood!" lahk. Now, dante get me the wrong weh, wot, I'm mustahd-keen on Jahmans, but back in the Fawties it turns out that eehen the 'stensible mohdruts wah plenning to conkah an' enslave Yurp, which is simply not the done thing, ole-bhoy. Have some tea.

Although I suspect the apex of Brit-screwing pleasure might be to make USA, Sweden, and Italy join the CPs in WWI, without annoying fascism around to mar their glorious victory. Oh what a nifty Brit-Gotterdammerung would it be.

"The apex of Brit-screwing pleasure" is so, so, being sigged.

Anyway that's a not-very plausible scenario but let's not get off topic.
 
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Germany and Italy get some lucky butterflies, coopt Vichy France as an equal Axis partner, and USSR as a treacherous temporary one, too.

The Soviet Union has no desire to see Germany in a position of hegemony. I repeat: Stalin may have been a paranoid psychopath, but he wasn't stupid. If Britain looks in a bad way, he'll turn the screw on Germany, not Britain. WHat does he have to gain? The southern hald of Iran? Wow, that's good value for an unchallenged hyper-militaristic neighbour who want to exterminate or enslave the people of Russia on his borders.

Their uber-Axis with Japan wipes out the British forces from North Africa, Middle East, and South East Asia,

How exactly do they go about "wiping out British forces in the Middle East"? Ninety percent of warfare is logistics, and the Germans, unless Rommel can wave his hands and shit railroad, don't have nearly enough logistical support. There are military buffs who can eplain better, but basically the whole North Africa show was a waste of time and resources for Germany because they couldn't reach any valuable targets without overstretching their logistical tail. There's this invading Turkey thing which is thrown around, but the Turks had recently shown how massive a headache it is to conquer the Anatolian plateau, and there army was respectable stuff. Whereas Germany overtaking the straits and heading for the back-door to the Caucasus is going to set alarm bells whooping and clanging in Moscow. Also, for Japan to attack Britain and the Netherlands but not America would enable the American forces in the Phillipines (which will be enlarged) to get the jump on them and leave thousands of Japanese troops stuck thumb-twiddling in Indonesia. America is completely capable of defeating Japan by itself. The Japanese knew this, which was of course why they tried to put American forces out of commision long enough to implement their plans. We know how well that worked out.

India rebels under INA leadership,

I'm not saying that if things looked grim in some hypothetical scenario, India wouldn't exit the war-effort stage-left, but I take issue with the INA being overhyped. The INA consisted of Subhas Chnadra Bose and some Malayso-Indian plantation workers assembled by the Japanese for propaganda purposes which they used on occasion as coolies. The real "Indian national army" was the largest volunteer force ever raised, the British Indian Army. And again, I don't mean to romanticise British India or say that they'd Nevah Surrendah, but I just don't like all the credit Bose is given for being a pawn of the people who massacred Indians on the Andaman islands.

the British people eventually acknowledges their desperate situation

Okay, as I see it by some time in mid-1942, the most probably situation is that fighting in North Africa is ongoing, America is in the war against Japan at least, and if not Germany then FDR is moving it that way as fast as possible, the Japanese are at their high-tide in East Asia, and the Soviet ambassadors in London and Washington are having a lot of urgent chats. And of course the Germans are no closer whatsover to being able to subdue Great Britain by military means.

and the empty megalomania behind Churchill's braggadocio, and goes Germany 1918.

I'm of the "barmy anachronism who happened to be in the right place at the right time but honestly, Clem could have done better" school of Churchillology, but there's an important element to that that you're missing: the leader of the opposition could have been a succesful war leader. Since the military and diplomatic situation cannot be much grimmer than it was OTL (as I've said, either Japan attacks America or exposes itself to an attack by America, the Germans don't have much going for the in NA, and are the intact, formidable-looking Soviet armed forces poised to plunge into Poland so much less morale-heightening than the Soviet force who've just lost thousands of men at Kiev without that many shots being fired?), then who exactly is going to lead your coup?

Churchill dies trying to pull a Cromwell coup, George VI abdicates, Lloyd George and Edward VIII take over, Axis paratroopers land in southern Britain exploiting the revolutionary chaos,

IBC was last seen at the barricades in the burned husk of Edinburgh shouting "Come on, lads! Come on!"

Seriously, though, this is a revenge fic. If Churchill's perceived to have screwed up too badly, he'll be replaced with someone who can better prosecute the war by a parliamentary motion of no-confidance. Britain, as it turns out, is actually not 1918 Germany. Its 1942 Britain. Big differance there.

Britain surrenders, Canada, Australia, and NZ panic and seek protection by joining the USA, South Africa becomes an Axis client, India an opportunist nationalist neutral. Take that, Churchill.

Take that!

You're not really helping yourself with the whole revenge-fic-schtick.

Also, Australia joins the USA? Its barely plausible with Canada.
 
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Germany and Italy get some lucky butterflies, coopt Vichy France as an equal Axis partner, and USSR as a treacherous temporary one, too. Their uber-Axis with Japan wipes out the British forces from North Africa, Middle East, and South East Asia, India rebels under INA leadership, the British people eventually acknowledges their desperate situation and the empty megalomania behind Churchill's braggadocio, and goes Germany 1918. Churchill dies trying to pull a Cromwell coup, George VI abdicates, Lloyd George and Edward VIII take over, Axis paratroopers land in southern Britain exploiting the revolutionary chaos, Britain surrenders, Canada, Australia, and NZ panic and seek protection by joining the USA, South Africa becomes an Axis client, India an opportunist nationalist neutral. Take that, Churchill.

I'm getting sick of you're anti-Churchill views.

The man encouraged Britain to fight on in dark, dark times.

This leaves me wondering if you're just an anglophobe or you see something in the Axis...
 
Your sig (and Eurofed) embarass me. I love the EU, and have lots of great sex*!

*As of June 2009. Subsequent relationship events may result in long, annoying, obligatory chastity. :mad::(

Hey, not all Europhiles are Eurofederationists, and not all Eurofederationists are Anglophobic loons. Really, I came up with the caption hastily because that line could not possibly be condemned to slip from human memory.
 
So you want to hand Scotland over to Edward VIII and his airborne German death-squads?

Well any EU superstate is bound to be a fascist utopia so if you can't beat them...

Although I think Eurofed is using his support of a Unioted Europe to disguise his fascist beliefs.
 
Well any EU superstate is bound to be a fascist utopia so if you can't beat them...

Although I think Eurofed is using his support of a Unioted Europe to disguise his fascist beliefs.

In one other thread, he appeared to be using "anti-fascist" as a synonym for "Germanophobe". When he was all "Destroy the Czechs!" I just disagreed with him, but I can't help but be a bit worried by this sort of thing.
 
I simply cannot stop laughing at this thread. :D:D:D:D:D
From the thought of Rommel shitting out railroads to the whole Brit-screwing pleasures, man this is funny.
 
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