Germany devided after World War I

MrHola

Banned
Is it possible to divide Germany in several states (Prussia, Bavaria, Saxony etc.) after World War I? What would be the effects?
 
Hitler--assuming he isn't butterflied away for one reason or another--would have a huge case for revanchism.

But greater difficulty in uniting the military strength necessary.

I think there is a chance, by the way. OTL, I believe Clemanceau sometimes talked about all sorts of very nasty things. Probably though you'd need at least two changes: 1) either Wilson is not POTUS or the US isn't involved in the war and 2) the Allies actually invade parts of Germany.
 
I can see the Allies going this way, esp. if the war lasts a bit longer and/or is bloodier even than OTL. But the problem is, who's going to enforce it? Not many Germans are going to accept this situation - look at the very weak support for OTL's Rhenish seperatist movement - so the Allies are probably going to have keep forces stationed in the various countries for at least a decade to support the new governments against inevitable nationalist uprisings.

Also, if you're going to do this, you'll probably want to partition Prussia. Strip it of the Rhineland and the territories gained in the wars against Denmark, Austria-Hungary and France in order to set up a better balance of power between the new Germanies.

In the long run, the partition probably won't be viable, but who knows? After a couple generations people might get used to the status quo enough to kill the idea of a united Germany.
 

MrHola

Banned
Either Wilson is not POTUS or the US isn't involved in the war and 2) the Allies actually invade parts of Germany.[/quote said:
Well, Wilson was almost defeated by Republican Charles Hughes, so what if Hughes won?
 
I think best chance is the Entente winning early. The German Empire is dissolved, Hannover is restored and the Rhineland is separated from Prussia. All the German monarchies are de facto independent states again.
 
I think best chance is the Entente winning early. The German Empire is dissolved, Hannover is restored and the Rhineland is separated from Prussia. All the German monarchies are de facto independent states again.

They might not be willing to take to such extreme measures if the war is short and relatively bloodless.
 

Nietzsche

Banned
I think best chance is the Entente winning early. The German Empire is dissolved, Hannover is restored and the Rhineland is separated from Prussia. All the German monarchies are de facto independent states again.
How is the entente winning earlier going to bring forth harsher terms? If anything, they'd be far less so.
 
Harsher?

All the German princes stay in their thrones, even Wilhelm or his son is still King of Prussia. It is only the German Imperial superstructure which is dismantled. Germany would not pay many war reparations either.

This is basically what the Russian Empire wanted, I think.
 
Harsher?

All the German princes stay in their thrones, even Wilhelm or his son is still King of Prussia. It is only the German Imperial superstructure which is dismantled. Germany would not pay many war reparations either.

This is basically what the Russian Empire wanted, I think.

That would be somewhat akin to disuniting the US. If it isn't harsher, what is it?
 

MrHola

Banned
I was thinking about dividing Germany into three states; Westphalia (including the Rhineland*), Bavaria and Prussia.

Plausible?

*Probably impossible since the French were dedicated into aquiring the Rhineland.
 
That would be somewhat akin to disuniting the US. If it isn't harsher, what is it?

The USA isn't a militarist regime dominated by hillbillies and the King of Virginia that has just thrown the rest into a disastrous war because a Mayan nationalist happened to shot the heir of the Mexican throne.
 
The USA isn't a militarist regime dominated by hillbillies and the King of Virginia that has just thrown the rest into a disastrous war because a Mayan nationalist happened to shot the heir of the Mexican throne.

True; Wilson didn't have that good a reason to bring them into the war.;)
 

Valdemar II

Banned
I have thought about it, and the only split which would be stable was in my opinion was a pierce of eastern Prussia (Shown in the thread https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=85372). The reason would be that we need to split Germny in pierce which couldn't just reconquer each other, but one of the pieces need to big enough that France wouldn't dominate the continent (one of the goal of UK). Prussia would become that it was in the past; a army with a country and would be a hell for any to conquer, while it would be to small to overrun Germany even if could have some luck against Poland. Bavaria as a independent state is less stable thanks to a smaller population and less industri and Germany without Bavaria would still be the "king" of Europe. Germany without Prussia would lack the industries of Silesia, the Junkers (which would make the right weaker), much of the Prussian militarisme and would only be little stronger than metropolian France.
 
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