Germany buys the Philippines from Spain

What if Spain gave the Philippines to Germany before the Treaty of Paris, like what France did with the territory of Louisiana in 1762 with Spain.
 
I can't see such a thing being possible, not without great opposition from Britain, who would be alarmed at at such a position being close to North Borneo and British Malaya. However, grabbing a few islands (like Palawan) or the southern Muslim sultanates (Sulu and Maguindanao) might be doable.

On the other hand, if you went back a few decades to before 1880, then you might be able to get a German North Borneo. The Austro-Hungarian diplomat Baron von Overbeck won the rights to North Borneo from Brunei and Sulu. However, the government in Vienna wasn't so warm on a Habsburg Sabah so he sold it to the British. ITTL, maybe a German diplomat heard what Overbeck had and persuaded Berlin to buy North Borneo from him.
 
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Britain will definitely be outraged considering that the security of the SCS lanes against any rival is of utmost importance. A German Philippines is actually the last thing that they wanted to happen.
 
What if Spain gave the Philippines to Germany before the Treaty of Paris, like what France did with the territory of Louisiana in 1762 with Spain.

Before the signing of the Treaty of Paris but after Dewey had taken Manila? Wouldn't be recognized by any other power and its a bit too late for Germany to do anything.
 
Tell you what, let's make this really interesting.

What would be the most desirable price Spain could get from Germany for the Phillipines.

But what would the Spanish really want?

Help.

So, how about the Spanish offer territorial concessions, basing rights, and even a large chunk of the Phillipine Islands to Germany in return for their assistance in the upcoming war with America?

The US lucked out in attacking an incompetent, under-equipped, and largely demoralized Spanish garrison in Cuba and being massively superior to the antiquated Spanish Navy.

How would they do against Prussians?
 
Tell you what, let's make this really interesting.

What would be the most desirable price Spain could get from Germany for the Phillipines.

But what would the Spanish really want?

Help.

So, how about the Spanish offer territorial concessions, basing rights, and even a large chunk of the Phillipine Islands to Germany in return for their assistance in the upcoming war with America?

The US lucked out in attacking an incompetent, under-equipped, and largely demoralized Spanish garrison in Cuba and being massively superior to the antiquated Spanish Navy.

How would they do against Prussians?
In a ground war? Get their asses handed to them, a naval war? What is the Konigreich to do? Sure Prussian's were tough but they aren't going to swim to Cuba.

Prussia was a Land Power. They won wars when they could get a hold of you if your on the water meters away before the 1880s (and by that time it was Germany) the Prussians had no way of projecting power and the Spanish navy was nothing to write home about.

A Spanish/Prussian alliance is difficult, and I can only see it coming maybe from Otto von Bismark and he had no interest in overseas territories.
 
The only way I could see that happening is before Kaiser Willy alienated the British and turned them to think of Germany as a major threat. There was still a chance in the 1890s (I think the final attempt was in 1901 but Bulow screwed the pooch, though I'm going from memory so i apologize if my dates are slightly wrong) of a German British rapproachment, but the Germans made a botch of it.

I think the Brits would be ok with a German puchase of the Phillipines, IF Germany agreed to moderate it's naval ambitions via treaty; something the Kaiser didn't want to do. I suppose if you had a different Kaiser, a more competent foreign minister, or a less persuasive voice in the german navay, it could happen.

Though I think by the time the Spanish-American war had started, it would have been too late for the Americans to care. At that point there's Spanish ships and troops in the Phillipines and they're targets for US Impeialist ambitions, regardless of whether some last minute piece of paper says they're spanish or not.
 
In a ground war? Get their asses handed to them, a naval war? What is the Konigreich to do? Sure Prussian's were tough but they aren't going to swim to Cuba.

Prussia was a Land Power. They won wars when they could get a hold of you if your on the water meters away before the 1880s (and by that time it was Germany) the Prussians had no way of projecting power and the Spanish navy was nothing to write home about.

A Spanish/Prussian alliance is difficult, and I can only see it coming maybe from Otto von Bismark and he had no interest in overseas territories.

That response seems poorly thought out. Otto Von Bismarck was retired as Chancellor in 1890.

Germany's acquisitions of overseas territories took place between 1883 and 1885, so they'd already established an international profile.

In 1888 Kaiser Wilhelm II took over. His rule was characterized by a more adventurous foreign policy and a commitment to naval expansion. By 1894 Germany had four Brandenberg class battleships. In 1895 they committed to five more battleships of the Kaiser Friedrich III class (completed in 1902) (but potentially some of these might have been available in 1898.) One assumes that in this context, the Germans had at least a reasonable contingent of cruisers, destroyers, support ships, etc.

The 1898 German navy was not a challenge to the British navy. But then, no Navy on earth at that time did. And to be fair, that's now what we're looking at them doing. Their mandate may be much simpler and achievable.

We can also assume that they would have, by 1898 had or been able to improvise substantial troop transport. Remember that in 1898 they did have Pacific Island holdings, a chunk of New Guineau, the Bismarck Islands and substantial interests in China. There was both infrastructure in place for them out there, and more importantly, pre-existing logistics chains out to the region - so they only needed to expand rather than build from scratch. The Phillipines was not too far away.

And an alliance with Spain would have paid dividends in a couple of ways. The option to take all or part of the Phillipines of course. But also creating at least the appearance of a second front with France.

So I don't see an alliance of convenience or opportunism emerging between Germany and Spain going into the Spanish American war as being impossible or even high orders of unlikelihood.

Mind you, I'm no expert.
 
What if Spain gave the Philippines to Germany before the Treaty of Paris, like what France did with the territory of Louisiana in 1762 with Spain.

If this is years before Treaty of Paris around 1880s, this is highly possible. But if you mean within months or days of that treaty, not possible.


It is impossible for Philippines to become protestant with a PoD 1898. In OTL, the American protestant missionaries and teachers were coming in droves for 50 years. Philippines in OTL never became predominantly Protestant.

Even if Aguinaldo or Rizal or Bonifacio wins independence alone or vs the Americans, the official religion would still be Catholicism or become secular state like OTL Malolos Republic but still predominantly catholic.

Having almost 400 years of Catholicism ingrained on your culture is just too much to overcome.
 
That response seems poorly thought out. Otto Von Bismarck was retired as Chancellor in 1890.

Germany's acquisitions of overseas territories took place between 1883 and 1885, so they'd already established an international profile.

In 1888 Kaiser Wilhelm II took over. His rule was characterized by a more adventurous foreign policy and a commitment to naval expansion. By 1894 Germany had four Brandenberg class battleships. In 1895 they committed to five more battleships of the Kaiser Friedrich III class (completed in 1902) (but potentially some of these might have been available in 1898.) One assumes that in this context, the Germans had at least a reasonable contingent of cruisers, destroyers, support ships, etc.

The 1898 German navy was not a challenge to the British navy. But then, no Navy on earth at that time did. And to be fair, that's now what we're looking at them doing. Their mandate may be much simpler and achievable.

We can also assume that they would have, by 1898 had or been able to improvise substantial troop transport. Remember that in 1898 they did have Pacific Island holdings, a chunk of New Guineau, the Bismarck Islands and substantial interests in China. There was both infrastructure in place for them out there, and more importantly, pre-existing logistics chains out to the region - so they only needed to expand rather than build from scratch. The Phillipines was not too far away.

And an alliance with Spain would have paid dividends in a couple of ways. The option to take all or part of the Phillipines of course. But also creating at least the appearance of a second front with France.

So I don't see an alliance of convenience or opportunism emerging between Germany and Spain going into the Spanish American war as being impossible or even high orders of unlikelihood.

Mind you, I'm no expert.
the OP said anytime before 1898, I was stating that the only way I could see an alliance between the two was through Otto von Bismark who was against overseas territories, and didn't want to keep France as a mortal enemy and surrounding them with Hohenzollerns would do just that.

Reread the post, it does not say anything about the 1880s, the OP asked before 1898; Otto was Chancellor before 1898 was he not?
 
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