Germany and Russia Attack Poland on the same day - How does France and Britain react?

What does Britain and France do?

  • Britain and France Declare war only on Russia

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In OTL Russia waited until the 17th Sept 1939 before invading Poland

My understanding was that they were awaiting the results of the Russian – Japanese “Molotov –Togo” treaty which was signed on the 16th Sept 1939 effectively securing their far Eastern Regions.

Now my question is – what if either Germany waited till the 17th Sept before invading Poland or….Russia either concluded its talks with Japan before the 1st Sept or invaded anyway and we end up with a situation where both Nations invade Poland on the same day.

Perhaps as an additional agreement of the Molotov Ribbentrop Pact?

I am interested in what you all think Britain and France have done under this situation?

Would they have declared war on both Germany and Russia – only one or the other or take a serious pause and not declare war at all?

What impact would this have on the subsequent conduct of the war etc?
 
Britain and France declare war on Germany not to save Poland but to save Britain and France so the hypocrisy of declaring war on just Germany wouldn't bother them In any case, the British and French don't have many real options against the Soviets

But do they declare war on just Germany or accept the partition? A much more difficult question. They can't really expect Poland to put up much resistance so they aren't losing much from a military point of view. There best option might be to sit it out and hope for a German-Soviet fallout. No one will make an agreement with the Anglo-French. Germany and the Soviets are too strong and the Anglo-French have just shown themselves unreliable. they have run out of allies and their best hope is that Hitler attacks someone else before he attacks them
 

ATP45

Banned
Britain and France declare war on Germany not to save Poland but to save Britain and France so the hypocrisy of declaring war on just Germany wouldn't bother them In any case, the British and French don't have many real options against the Soviets

But do they declare war on just Germany or accept the partition? A much more difficult question. They can't really expect Poland to put up much resistance so they aren't losing much from a military point of view. There best option might be to sit it out and hope for a German-Soviet fallout. No one will make an agreement with the Anglo-French. Germany and the Soviets are too strong and the Anglo-French have just shown themselves unreliable. they have run out of allies and their best hope is that Hitler attacks someone else before he attacks them
Just so.Besides,germans ask soviet 4.9.39,why they do not attack.Another possibility is that Stalin wait till France decide what to do - and attack after France decide to not attack.That was stupid - if they take german territory to Ren river,there would be no Ardeny attack.
 
The blatant example of a Nazi-Soviet alliance causes France to declare full neutrality and seek a non-aggression treaty with Hitler. He accepts, and actually intends to follow it, as it frees up significant resources for his eventual betrayal of the USSR. Meanwhile, the aggressively anti-Nazi faction in the UK has to deal with the increasingly asked question " Are you bloody idiots? Thinking we can go after the Hitlerites alone with the damned Bolsheviks backing them up?"
 
The blatant example of a Nazi-Soviet alliance causes France to declare full neutrality and seek a non-aggression treaty with Hitler. He accepts, and actually intends to follow it, as it frees up significant resources for his eventual betrayal of the USSR. Meanwhile, the aggressively anti-Nazi faction in the UK has to deal with the increasingly asked question " Are you bloody idiots? Thinking we can go after the Hitlerites alone with the damned Bolsheviks backing them up?"

What are terms of this pact? Does France betray it after Hitler attacks Russia?

Didn't Hitler also want revenge against the French?
 
Britain didn't care about Poland that much. Britain was backed into a corner to declare war on Nazi Germany due to Hitler's repeated lies and treaty breaking.

They needed to declare war on Germany to save face in diplomacy and because Hitler had humiliated the Wallies with his deceit and breaking promises - what happened to Poland was of secondary importance to Britain. France will follow Britain's lead.

They didn't have this issue with the USSR. They can still declare war on Germany and not the USSR.
 
An interesting scenario would be that they don't declare war on either, and wait it out.

A more plausible one is that they declare war on Germany, and cut all ties with the USSR. If we assume France falls as OTL, and Barbarossa happens as well, the WAllies will not support Russia, no lend-lease, nothing. Basically they will be happy that the wolves are at each others' throats.

Declaring war on both is out of the question, unless the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact becomes a proper alliance.
 
As I understand it, historically France's 1921 treaty with Poland obligated it to defend Poland from an attack from Germany, not from Russia. Britain's Guarantee was to Polish independence from 'some European country' which was supposed to imply Germany, allowing it not to declare war on Slovakia as an example. The Soviet version of things was that they were not actually at war with Poland as war was something that happened between States & the Polish State no longer existed as it had fled the country the day before - so what they were doing was intervening in a chaotic situation to protect Ukrainian/Polish ethnic minorities. When Poland pressured Britain about this Halifax said something about it was entirely up to Britain to judge what they'd do. Later when the Red Army was heading west again the British played the angle that they guaranteed Poland's independence, not it's territorial integrity.

Given all the players diplomatic positions were as stretchy as an elastic band & Britain didn't want war just yet against the Soviet Union I suppose the British/French response to a Soviet invasion of Poland coinciding with the German one gets the same response that the Slovakian one did, it gets ignored.
 
They declare war on Germany but not on the USSR, as they don't want to weld the new German-Soviet Axis together. There may be an embargo on the Soviets in order to save face.
 
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