Germany, 1933

During the 1933 German general elections, which in OTL, a coalition led by Hitler's NSDAP swept to power, thrusting Hitler into the office of the Reichkanzler. With the Reichstag fire that followed, and President Hindenburg's death, this election resulted in the Nazis assuming absolute power in Germany.

So here's our scenario: instead, during that pivotal election, because of some point of divergence earlier, the German Communist Party breaks with the Comintern, and forms a Popular Front coalition with the more moderate Marxist Social Democrats. This Popular Front, combined with the KPD assuming a more Luxembourgist stance, results in the Popular Front eeking out a thing majority in the Reichstag, and results in either Otto Wels of the SPD or Ernst Thälmann of the KPD assuming the office of Reichkanzler.

What difference wout this make for the world afterwards? Let's assume that events like the Reichstag fire and the death of President Hindenburg all happen just as they did OTL.
 
Well this butterflies away the Reichstag fire. Why would a communist burn it down if his party were in power? How can the SA get access if their offices are not actually in the Reichstag?

The Nazi Party is dead. They were running on loose change by the 33 elections, without the Chancellorship. The Nazis go bankrupt as a party.

This will require something Weimar didn’t have especially with the depression. Political stability. You need this colation to work where so many others have failed and have a majority to push through some major measures. I honestly don’t think President Hidenburg would like working with Communists and would be tempted to dissolve the Reichstag and rule by decree through his son and close advisors.
 
The Reichstag fire was never proven to have been the work of a saboteur, whether it was deliberate on the part of the NSDAP or the KPD. Most historians think that that the best evidence still points to the fire being an accident, and hence that's why I left in, partially to muse over what a Reichstag fire would do for the Popular Front. Both the KPD and the SPD utterly despided Hitler and the Nazis, so would they use it as a pretext for repressing the Nazis and banning them from the Reichstag, just like the Nazis did with the Communists in OTL.

Hindenburg potentially disolving the parliament and ruling by decree is an interesting possibility. Of course, it's against the Weimar Constitution, and I would suspect that even the parties that were Hindenburg allies would pitch a fit. Of course, there's also the question of what the militant Popular Front would do. Perhaps an interesting exercise in dual power, where the parliament refuses to be disolved, and attempts to maintain control of the Ministrys of Government.
 
I agree with OpGreen. If a Popular Front had come to power in 1933, President Hindenburg would have ruled by decree and dissolved the Reichstag. This could, however, plunge the country into a civil war, and I do not think the Army could fight the Nazis, Communists, and defend the borders. This would not be appealing to the military, so maybe Hindenburg would appoint Hitler as Chancellor as a way to appease the Nazis and gain manpower in the fight against the Reds.

It would be interesting to see what the rest of the continent did with this.
 
I do know that Hindenburg was reluctant to use his power to dissolve the Reichstag, since, IIRC, it would lead to a snap election, giving him only a short window to rule by decree. He'd only have about a year left to live, and with his death, who knows what would happen.
 
I do not think that it would have to lead to a snap election. I think that Hindenburg's successor would be chosen by the military. Do we think it would be possible that they would chose the exiled Kaiser or his son?
 
Hindenburg potentially disolving the parliament and ruling by decree is an interesting possibility. Of course, it's against the Weimar Constitution, and I would suspect that even the parties that were Hindenburg allies would pitch a fit. Of course, there's also the question of what the militant Popular Front would do. Perhaps an interesting exercise in dual power, where the parliament refuses to be disolved, and attempts to maintain control of the Ministrys of Government.

No its not. Ruling by Decree became a common event in the late Weimar Republic and the infamous Article 48 provides the powers to the President.

"In case public safety is seriously threatened or disturbed, the Reich President may take the measures necessary to reestablish law and order, if necessary using armed force. In the pursuit of this aim, he may suspend the civil rights described in articles 114, 115, 117, 118, 123, 124 and 153, partially or entirely."

The Parliament cannot refuse to be dissolved. Hidenburg was a old man sure however he was the President and the country and the Army would follow him. There would be no Dual government just a Presidential appointed Chancellor doing what Von Hidenburg’s advisors wanted.
 
Well, you can't ignore the SA, and the possibility exists that if a Popular Front government comes into power you could see an attempted SA coup, akin to the Kapp Putsch of the early 1920s

If the junkers and army overcome their dislike of the Nazis and support, or refuse to oppose, the SA you potentially have Roehm as head of government, sidelining Hitler, and a civil war in the streets

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 

yourworstnightmare

Banned
Donor
If a Popular Front take Germany Hindenburg would launch a coup supported by the military and the right wing parties. Even the Nazis would probably see this as a necessary action. When Hindenburg dies, either the military and the right wing politicians in Germany quickly appoint a successor, or the country erupt in chaos.
 
If a Popular Front take Germany Hindenburg would launch a coup supported by the military and the right wing parties. Even the Nazis would probably see this as a necessary action. When Hindenburg dies, either the military and the right wing politicians in Germany quickly appoint a successor, or the country erupt in chaos.
Don't you think that Hitler will naturally pick up leadership over Right ultras of different shades once Hindenburg is dead?
 

Markus

Banned
So here's our scenario: instead, during that pivotal election, because of some point of divergence earlier, the German Communist Party breaks with the Comintern, and forms a Popular Front coalition with the more moderate Marxist Social Democrats.

The SPD is a more moderate Marxist party and the KPD breaks with the Comintern?This is not just ASB, but simply wrong.
 
All you really need is Stalin giving different orders to the Comintern telling the communist parties to form popular fronts with the socialists...
 
I don't think Hitler will be seen as the National leader of the German Right.... Either the Monarchy or a current member of Hidenburgs circle.

I agree Papen or the military could become the leader of the German right. However, I guess Papen is unlikely. He did not have many friends by the end of his tenure.
 
The SPD is a more moderate Marxist party and the KPD breaks with the Comintern?This is not just ASB, but simply wrong.

You're misunderstanding me. The Social Democrats were at that time a traditional Marxian socialist party. They were more moderate than the Communists. The condition I laid was that somehow, in the period before this eleciton, the KPD maintained a more Luxembourgist stance, and went against the Stalin dominated Comintern's policy of refusing to cooperate with Social Democrats in European parliaments.
 
I don't think Hitler will be seen as the National leader of the German Right.... Either the Monarchy or a current member of Hidenburgs circle.
Well, Hitler had by far biggest (para)military force in his disposal among all right leaders. And, if military would obey Hindenburg it does not mean they will obey somebody from his entourage. I see Hitler sort of kreeping toward leadership among rights in this scenario.
 
You're misunderstanding me. The Social Democrats were at that time a traditional Marxian socialist party. They were more moderate than the Communists. The condition I laid was that somehow, in the period before this eleciton, the KPD maintained a more Luxembourgist stance, and went against the Stalin dominated Comintern's policy of refusing to cooperate with Social Democrats in European parliaments.

I'd have to disagree about the SPD; even by 1930, they'd already pretty much become a reformist party, dedicated to democracy and worker's rights.
 
I'd have to disagree about the SPD; even by 1930, they'd already pretty much become a reformist party, dedicated to democracy and worker's rights.

Classical Marxism and democracy are not mutually exclusive. While they had a reformist political stance, at the time they were still committed to achieving socialism by peaceful evolutionary means.
 
All you really need is Stalin giving different orders to the Comintern telling the communist parties to form popular fronts with the socialists...
... but then you need to explain why that happens. IOTL, the reasoning behind the lack of a popular front strategy was that the social democrat parties were in fact just as bad as fascists- hence the pejorative term 'social fascist' for them - and that capitalism was entering it's final crisis...
 
Well, Hitler had by far biggest (para)military force in his disposal among all right leaders. And, if military would obey Hindenburg it does not mean they will obey somebody from his entourage. I see Hitler sort of kreeping toward leadership among rights in this scenario.

The SA was indeed a major force however you’re expecting a Prussian military elite to dance to Hitler’s tune? These were the people who even after Hitler became the Supreme Leader behind his back called him “Little Corporal”. Just think about this for a moment.

Hidenburg is the legal head of state and a war hero. Hitler is neither. Hidenburg is a man from their ranks a natural ally to the military who has secretly been improving its capabilities. Hitler is a upstart nobody whose thugs are causing trouble for the Police. Honestly its not a hard choice to see whom the army will go with.

Don’t think of Hitler as the 1938 onwards “Supreme Commander” think of him in 1932/33 there is a massive difference in both Hitler and his perception in Germany and outside.

Even if Hidenburg is dead lets say. The Army can go it alone and take power for themselves with the Former Crown Prince as a new Kaiser. Until 1939 some military districts had portraits of the Kaiser on their walls not the Führer. His Chancellor ship and the withering away of Hindenburg legitimised Hitler. If Hitler is just another financially broke opposition figure the military is going to feel very comfortable backing the group it always has the elites.
 
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