Germans under French Rule

France gets its foot in the door and acquires parts of Western Germany under Louis XIV or if you prefer, another monarch. Just so long as it is before the 19th century but after the 16th. Would the French be opressive rulers? Would the local people try to throw them out? Would angry Germans move East or even to America in large numbers rather than become French citizens?
 
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It depends on when it happens; After 1800, not a chance, except for very small areas, but before, hardly impossible.
 
I mean like Alsace La-Rhénanie.

He's talking about OTL, where Alsace is the example you're looking for, as France never controlled the Rhineland proper until very late into the 18th century, for a number of reasons, mostly practical (by which time Frenchification was pretty much an impossibility, mostly due to nationalism).
 
Yes, it was a stupid pun suggesting that some or all of the Rhineland would be more like Alsace Lorraine. Oh, and complete Frenchification need not be necessary for control of the land. It didn't even occur in Alsace-Lorraine. If France controls the Rhineland (and maybe Belgium), Prussia and its friends are welcome to try and take it back.
 
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Maybe I'm wrong but if I were a German on that side of the Rhine, I would prefer republican France to militarist Prussia; I'm sure many would agree. They wouldn't be completely Franconized, but they would be politically French. If anything they'd be like Quebec to the rest of Canada.

Since the area is so densely populated, I doubt they would be oppressed.
 
Maybe I'm wrong but if I were a German on that side of the Rhine, I would prefer republican France to militarist Prussia; I'm sure many would agree. They wouldn't be completely Franconized, but they would be politically French. If anything they'd be like Quebec to the rest of Canada.

Since the area is so densely populated, I doubt they would be oppressed.
But it might be better for the Catholics there, at least at first. I'm picturing some (but still a minority) of the protestants and perhaps early nationalists immigrating to America and Eastern Europe.

For the most part though, the integration likely goes smoothly, with French education, legal systems and infrastructure dominating. Some benefits come from the greater unity and resoucres avialable. I imagine that memebers of the high society would speak French, take French first names, and enjoy Parisian art and fasion and drink fine French Wines. Trade accross the Rhine would be stronger than ever. French manufacturers would thrive on the coal and plentiful skilled labor of the Rhineland (and possibly other German lands) and the Market for all kinds of French goods would be greater as well.

But behind it all, the Germans might still be seen as second class citizens compared to the metropolitan French. They might yearn to go their own way, free from Paris's constant interference. Something the French won't be pleased about.
 
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I think it would depend on the circumstances of their acquisition a lot. 17th century France had the capasbility to take in territories without changing much about them. The people would stay within their familiar system, but their new overlord would be the French king. French would eventually replace Latin as the language of law and Meissnerdeutsch as the language of educated discourse, though there would, of course, still be books circulating. In the end, the Rhineland would look like OTL Alsace-Lorraine, with local varieties of German spoken widely, but French as the language of the ruling class and bilingualism widespread. In time, they'd be as French as any inhabitant of Montbeliard or Tolouse.

The political dislocation would be limited since the territories would technically continue to be part of the HRE and the old system allowed for pretty wrenching changes in the course of heredity, too. People would be used to that, and it would be no worse than what they know. Most local laws would stay in place initially, but be harmonised to the French system (to the extent you could talk of a French system) in time.

If the French absolutist state of the 18th century ran the conquest and tried to reorganise the newly acquired territory, though, I would expect much greater resistance. For one thing, Louis XIV did not make friends with his wars, and people had long memories. For another, this would basically relegate the entire German-speaking population to second-class subject status in one blow.

The choice between Republican France and militarist Prussia, unfortunately, would not be open to the locals (though it'sds be easy to make). It would be the choice between an unpredictable, pretty tyrannical but peaceful and familiar statelet versus and intrusive, exploitative and warlike, but powerful and fairly modern absolutist kingdom. Religion would most likely not be a major issue given the Upper Rhine was majority Catholic.
 
The north Rhineland used to speak a Dutch dialect before the Prussians arrived, so that should be taken into account.
 
But behind it all, the Germans might still be seen as second class citizens compared to the metropolitan French. They might yearn to go their own way, free from Paris's constant interference. Something the French won't be pleased about.

The same could be said for Southern France. If anything this gives more excuses to bring Germans closer to the French and go after areas near the Swiss border or Belgium.
 
The north Rhineland used to speak a Dutch dialect before the Prussians arrived, so that should be taken into account.
GAAAAHHH!

It is true that what was spoken was a lot closer to Dutch than to standard High German, but they self-identified as "German" and their language as "German". In a purely rational world, Afrikaans would be Dutch, there'd be one continental Scandinavian language and several languages in today's Germany. But language is all about self identification and perception. Or, if you will, "A language is a dialect with an army and a navy".
 
I think by taking a much larger number of "Germans" into France, the likelihood of them integrating less is high. Alsace is rather small and centuries of orientation toward Paris has left its mark. Now if you take in all of Germany west of the Rhine there's much less pressure to orient toward Paris as there are plenty of big cities and universities in the German speaking parts. Furthermore, this long a frontier to Germany will expose the German minority much more to cultural influences from Germany proper. Essentially, a larger minority and a minority farther away from the heartland is more likely to preserve its distinct identity (although that identity likely won't include separatism).

The effect would IMHO be that the ruling class still knows French, but that German is much more widespread in this larger France than it is in Alsace today.
 
GAAAAHHH!

It is true that what was spoken was a lot closer to Dutch than to standard High German, but they self-identified as "German" and their language as "German". In a purely rational world, Afrikaans would be Dutch, there'd be one continental Scandinavian language and several languages in today's Germany. But language is all about self identification and perception. Or, if you will, "A language is a dialect with an army and a navy".
German or Deutsch? It has different meanings in the German language.
 
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