Germans adopt the Pz IV as their MBT in 1938

[Vjacheslav Malyshev]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KV-13

The IS-1 and IS-2 were designed as heavy tanks, not as MBT's, plus they were designed in 1943, not 1942.

edit: Whats your point to posting pictures of the KV-13, IS-1, and IS-2?

 

[Uruk]

The obvious solution to this problem is to adopt the 100 ton KV-5.

T-34M is much better then the T-43, it sloves a lot of the T-034's problem such as getting torsion bars, planetary transmission, 5 man crew, and being uparmed.

Love it when people answer before reading what its about, the statement was that the T-34M wouldnt disrupt production as the T-43 would hence my remark that both are so different from the T-34/76 that production would suffer in either case.

 

[Uruk]

If it's 1942 then they're going to use the KV-13.

Mmmmmm, really? AFAIK it wasnt ordered into production nor seriously considered to replace the KV and T-34 by the Army regardless what of what it was designed to do

 

[Vjacheslav Malyshev]

Mmmmmm, really? AFAIK it wasnt ordered into production nor seriously considered to replace the KV and T-34 by the Army regardless what of what it was designed to do

Yes it very considered and designed to be the MBT of the red army.

 

[Deleted member 1487]

The IS-1 and IS-2 were designed as heavy tanks, not as MBT's, plus they were designed in 1943, not 1942.

edit: Whats your point to posting pictures of the KV-13, IS-1, and IS-2?

I just wanted to show off the machine. I thought all of the pictures were of the KV-13, none look like IS's to me.

 

[Deleted member 1487]

Yes it very considered and designed to be the MBT of the red army.

Yes, but due to not being able to fix the transmission it was never serious close to entering production because it was pretty much a mechanical mess.

http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/26639-all-about-kv-13/

Summer of 1942, planned to hold a full-scale test of the KV-13, but June 15 was followed by an order to suspend work on it and all the forces to concentrate on the issue of serial products. Nevertheless, we found out that the chassis and transmission of the tank is extremely unreliable. Very often, the gearbox broke, destroyed the road wheels and tracks, on sharp bends flew caterpillar, overheated engine. In the battle against KV-13 also proved to be worse than its predecessor - because of the created tesnosty in the fighting compartment had to be removed from manning the gunner, transferring its functions the commander of the machine.

On the question of finalizing the KV-13 back in the autumn, when the lead designer appointed NF Shashmurina instead died suddenly N.V Zeitz. New manager suggested using in the test tank, transmission, previously developed by FA Marishkinym for HF-1s, but there is no luck accompanied the Soviet engineers. The reason for this was severely overloaded tank.In September 1942, a prototype of the KV-13 showed the People's Commissar for Tank Industry I. Salzmann, umalchav, although some of the identified faults. Since this tank is again ranked among the top priority projects of its refinement was continued. In addition to addressing deficiencies in the available HF-13 in October 1942, planned to install a tower to three people. However, this process will soon took a protracted nature. Each time the tank is sent to landfill it breaks down on a variety of reasons - most likely the number "13" in the name of the tank to play its unfortunate role. Over the next month on the KV-13 to replace not only the elements of the chassis, but also electrical, cooling elements and final drives.Do not become a "vent" and seemingly well-protected tank. Within two days, 11 and 12 September 1942, the KV-13 shelled the landfill near Sverdlovsk. Fired from a distance of 50 meters, but by different batches of powder charges reproduce the shooting from a distance of 400, 600 and 1000 meters. Total made 14 shots from a 76-mm tank gun and 8 rounds of 88-millimeter German anti-aircraft guns. Five shells fired from a German gun penetrate the frontal armor, forcing engineers to think about increasing your reservation up to 120 mm. The truth in this case the weight of the tank would be significantly higher than established in the TTZ 30 tons.

As a further improvement of the first prototype of the KV-13 is clearly reached an impasse, it was decided to build a second copy. It established ternary tower at rush 1540 mm with a thickness of 90-110 mm of armor, and frontal armor was brought to 120 mm. The tank has increased to 38 tons, slightly reduced the maximum speed. In a report by February 1, 1943 Deputy People's Commissar with J. Kotin, reported that the KV-13 on the battlefield will have the mobility is no worse than T-34, having also the best protection. Required "only" modify the permanent failure of the gearbox.

 

[Vjacheslav Malyshev]

I just wanted to show off the machine. I thought all of the pictures were of the KV-13, none look like IS's to me.

They're not the IS-1 and IS-2(IS-1 and IS-2 are bit a of backronym contemporary sources name them as IS-85 and IS-2). The IS-1 and IS-2 you posted were the original IS-1 and IS-2. Here is some info on them,

The two new Stalin tanks were direct successors of the KV-13. Many internal components were reworked, but the hull and overall layout remained the same. The old friction clutches were replaced with planetary gear mechanisms. The cooling system was redesigned. The tracks (the new tanks used KV-1 tracks) were lightened. The two tanks were equipped with a ZiS-5-IS 76 mm gun and a U-11 122 mm howitzer, in a KV-9 turret. They were named IS-1 (Object 233IS) and IS-2 (Object 234IS). While being superior to the KV-1 in speed, reliability, and simplicity, these new tanks brought nothing new in terms of firepower.

Yes, but due to not being able to fix the transmission it was never serious close to entering production because it was pretty much a mechanical mess.

http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/26639-all-about-kv-13/

It was serious enough to become the IS-85 and IS-122.

 

[Uruk]

Yes it very considered and designed to be the MBT of the red army.

It sounds very strange that the Soviets would introduce the T-34M with all the hassle a new tank means only to replace it half a year later by a new design

 

[Vjacheslav Malyshev]

It sounds very strange that the Soviets would introduce the T-34M with all the hassle a new tank means only to replace it half a year later by a new design

The T-34M was meant to be a replacement for the T-34, it wasn't meant to be a MBT.

 

[Uruk]

The T-34M was meant to be a replacement for the T-34, it wasn't meant to be a MBT.

Eh? So this MBT wont replace medium and heavy tanks? The whole point behind the MBT idea?

 

[Vjacheslav Malyshev]

Eh? So this MBT wont replace medium and heavy tanks? The whole point behind the MBT idea?

Typo, it was meant as a medium tank, not as a MBT.

 

[phx1138]

Replacing Panzer III with Panzer IV will change the number of tanks produced how?

IDK, how about getting it in production before the war, with more plants producing it?

German Kill rate mean nothing when you don't have reliable german loss figure

I don't give a damn what the reported figures are. The actual figures will go up.

 

[machine3589]

Regarding the pre-war build-up, I had recently read in a local military history magazine that the Reich`s Panzer construction fell quite shorter than its potential due to everyone`s favourite Reichsmarschall. Would not having Göring in charge of the Four Year Plan result in greater production pre-war?

 

[Deleted member 1487]

Regarding the pre-war build-up, I had recently read in a local military history magazine that the Reich`s Panzer construction fell quite shorter than its potential due to everyone`s favourite Reichsmarschall. Would not having Göring in charge of the Four Year Plan result in greater production pre-war?

Indeed it would. I'm planning a TL about him dying pre-war and someone else taking over the 4 year plan, which results in a better output and organization of the economy by 1939 (his influence did not just impact panzer production). What magazine is this? I'd like to read the article.

 

[machine3589]

Indeed it would. I'm planning a TL about him dying pre-war and someone else taking over the 4 year plan, which results in a better output and organization of the economy by 1939 (his influence did not just impact panzer production). What magazine is this? I'd like to read the article.

It`s called Vojna Povijest. The magazine did a series on the Wehrmacht called "Wehrmacht - stvarnost i mitovi" (reality and myths) a while back. This, of course, included an article about the Panzerwaffe. I`ll try to find a PDF version of the article, but the magazine is only available in Croatian, I`m afraid.

 

[Deleted member 1487]

It`s called Vojna Povijest. The magazine did a series on the Wehrmacht called "Wehrmacht - stvarnost i mitovi" (reality and myths) a while back. This, of course, included an article about the Panzerwaffe. I`ll try to find a PDF version of the article, but the magazine is only available in Croatian, I`m afraid.

Sure, I'd appreciate it, but I don't speak Croatian, so I'll see if I can c&p to google translate.