Germanicus and Germany

Seraphiel

Banned
Could Germanicus have conquered germany, at least for a little while? by that i i mean having legions continually stationed in germany and the germans enter into latinization. So is it possible?
 

Prefrence

Banned
Well it depends what you mean by Germany.

Up to the Elbe? Very Possible,

Modern Day Germany (with some border changes) Not very likely

All of what the Romans considered Germany? Near Imposible, heres why.

 

Seraphiel

Banned
By Germany i mean up to the Elbe possibly smaller, all i want to know if its posible having romans in a small part of germany long enough for it to be become partly civilized, roman style.
 
By Germany i mean up to the Elbe possibly smaller, all i want to know if its posible having romans in a small part of germany long enough for it to be become partly civilized, roman style.

It did partially Romanize. That's why the Western Empire was overrun by Arian Christian tribal Confederacies.
 
Could Germanicus have conquered germany, at least for a little while? by that i i mean having legions continually stationed in germany and the germans enter into latinization. So is it possible?


germanicus could take germany? nope... it was forest, real forest.
did i mention the forest...

germanicus was called germanicus for his victories here... but germania (it is way larger as 1914 germany) conquering? no - its like taking canada with a small force from maine... no chance.

moving around, killing some tribes? yes. but not taking it
they "civilized" them in the border area, so the allemans could kick em out and take over...

the romans had a very very small army... for the size of its empire... so if they try to take germania, they loose it.
 

Arrix85

Donor
In a world where the battle of Teutoburg happened, the task it's nearly impossible. That battle convinced Augustus (and all the other emperors) that the limes had to be the Rhine-Danube, nothing more (and that Germanic tribes couldn't be defeated in a permanent way). Germanicus got recalled (and sent to Asia) by Tiberius because he violated this "law", even more successfulls campaign wouldn't avoid this.

I'm working on something about Germanicus, but it's really months away.
 

Arrix85

Donor
germanicus could take germany? nope... it was forest, real forest.
did i mention the forest...

germanicus was called germanicus for his victories here... but germania (it is way larger as 1914 germany) conquering? no - its like taking canada with a small force from maine... no chance.

moving around, killing some tribes? yes. but not taking it
they "civilized" them in the border area, so the allemans could kick em out and take over...

the romans had a very very small army... for the size of its empire... so if they try to take germania, they loose it.

By this reasoning wouldn't the conquest of Gaul by Julius Caesar seems ASB? I'm really asking (not criticizing), I need any bit of info. Seems to me that at least the northern part of Gaul wasn't that different from at least western and southern "Germania"
 

Seraphiel

Banned
By this reasoning wouldn't the conquest of Gaul by Julius Caesar seems ASB? I'm really asking (not criticizing), I need any bit of info. Seems to me that at least the northern part of Gaul wasn't that different from at least western and southern "Germania"

Thats sort of what i was thinking to.
 
By this reasoning wouldn't the conquest of Gaul by Julius Caesar seems ASB? I'm really asking (not criticizing), I need any bit of info. Seems to me that at least the northern part of Gaul wasn't that different from at least western and southern "Germania"


well,

you really need a caesar and also gaul wasn´t so big, so dense with trees (i think in this time you really can HATE the forests of germania) and the people here are much wilder as the gauls...

you have the chance of traitors... germans are well known for their rivallity.. they hated each other more as the romans...

but the landscape is so against the romans that they cannot "win"... they lack the will to move so many people here to make it save...

they tried and arminus destroyed it. with him dying young you will find another german leader... the romans did not behave in a way the germanic style of living is working with... that was true with the gauls too, but they are much more modern (and so way weaker - in the way to withstand the romans... in this time: as wild as you are, as safe to survive contact to the romans (if these come to you... asking the cimbre and teutons about what happen if you come to them :D)
 
uhm ... actually Gauls were military an harder bone to gnaw than Germans.
The furor teutonicus is the classical representation of "the unknown", of "those savage outlandish barbarians".
Military prowness (of the savage hack-and-slash kind) is the classical way more civilized peoples describe less civilized ones.
But looking on objective data, Gauls enjoied better metallurgy, better (although rudimental) army coordination, larger armies (due to the more evoluted social structure), better defense construction capability (walled cities, anyone?), some siege experience, some concept of "strategy", a diplomacy inter-tribe system, a better developed agriculture and food conservation techniques (armies march on their belly).
The problem is, Gauls were richer, too, and that made them something worth the investment of waging war for.
The best defence of Gemans is that they were a bunch of half-starved lousy barbarians dwelling in a worthless swamp-and-forest wasteland no sane man would dream of spending two oboli for, or that, at least, this was the way they were considered.

PS: this does not imply that conquering Germania could be easier than Gallia, anyhow.
For one thing, it would require longer supply lines
 
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I am not sure why it is always said impossible... Only the mountains for me are a problem, really, for the south of germany. Remove the Alps and all, and... a new Gaul.

Gauls where also a shitload of woods...

It is notable southern german lands can grow grappes, and wines...
 
By this reasoning wouldn't the conquest of Gaul by Julius Caesar seems ASB? I'm really asking (not criticizing), I need any bit of info. Seems to me that at least the northern part of Gaul wasn't that different from at least western and southern "Germania"

Gaul is a hell of a lot more developed than Germania in the first centuries BC and AD, which provides much more of a base for the Roman Empire to work off. Basically, the Romans depended on the active collaboration of settled urban elites to make their Empire work- and these did not exist in Germania until the third and fourth centuries AD.
 
And of course, the supply of "spare" legions and governors and so on and so forth would make it extremely difficult to do very much even without Teutoburg destroying three legions.

The Roman armies aren't too small, they just have plenty of more productive engagements elsewhere.
 
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