German society in a CP-victory scenario?

i think it would very much depend when victory did happen.
a quick win will have different result from a slow bloody win
 
The biggest thing is the advance of social democracy and free art. While Weimar Germany was a special case, many of those developments (in art, culture yadda yadda) would continue, although in a changed form. Post war pessimism would still exist in intellectual circles and the social democratic movement would do close to everything to gain a more fair representation.

If the war drags on long, the clash between German militarism and post war pessimism would be fairly interesting.
 
Broadly speaking:
1914/15 victory - German monarchy triumphant, democratic reforms deferred
1917/18 victory - old order is run down, revolution imminent
1916 is the year when the mood broke, so both outcomes are possible
 
depends exactly when they win the war, a 1914 would be very different to say 1916/17

Germany would probably become somewhat more liberal in the 1920s, and more democratic, maybe even on the way to parliamentary democracy

after the wall street crash though its possible a dictatorship of some form could emerge, probably not a fascist one, but a corporatist style one
 
depends exactly when they win the war, a 1914 would be very different to say 1916/17

Germany would probably become somewhat more liberal in the 1920s, and more democratic, maybe even on the way to parliamentary democracy

after the wall street crash though its possible a dictatorship of some form could emerge, probably not a fascist one, but a corporatist style one

Would the Crash even occur with a CP victory? After 1915/16, I'm not sure that the French and British would be able to replay their loans to the Americans without German Reparations, which would have an impact on the US economic situation in the '20s.
 
Would the Crash even occur with a CP victory? After 1915/16, I'm not sure that the French and British would be able to replay their loans to the Americans without German Reparations, which would have an impact on the US economic situation in the '20s.

It would be called Black Monday and would be the Berlin stock market crash instead.;)

(But really, that could actually be the case. And yes, America will suffer.)
 
If Germany wins, Britain and France will be unable to repay their lines to the US. So yeah, thats bad news for US bankers. Also, Germany didn't succumb to Communist revolution after losing; I doubt a revolution will happen after a victory.
 
If Germany wins, Britain and France will be unable to repay their lines to the US. So yeah, thats bad news for US bankers. Also, Germany didn't succumb to Communist revolution after losing; I doubt a revolution will happen after a victory.

All loans up to the DoW were secured of Allied property/investments in America, so the lenders would not have lost heir money. Unsecured loans were made only after the US declared war, and wouldn't have happened otherwise.

Also, I've heard it argued that it was the promotion of huge tranches of war bonds in 1917-18 that accustomed ordinary Americans to buying bonds, shares etc. If that is true, then without it you probably don't get the frenetic buying of 1928, which led to the bubble bursting the following year.
 

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If Germany wins, Britain and France will be unable to repay their lines to the US. So yeah, thats bad news for US bankers. Also, Germany didn't succumb to Communist revolution after losing; I doubt a revolution will happen after a victory.
If its before the US enters the war the US bankers have French and British collateral, so if they don't repay they forfeit it.
 
Culturally, I doubt there would be that much of a difference (unless the war ended prior to 1916) - because the Horrors of Total War would still have to be translated into art somehow.
One also has to take into account that Weimar Republic Berlin was in no way representative for Germany as a whole. So while Berlin might be somewhat tamer in comparison to OTL; this would not effect "die Provinz" much.

A lot will also depend on how the rest of Europe changes. Will Russia still become Communist? What would happen to France?

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Politically, that also depends. By 1917, the end of the Prussian 3-class-suffrage was announced (which constituted one Major obstacle to a liberalization of Germany).
If the war ends earlier, there will not be that much pressure to change to constitution.

However, if the borders are to Change in one way or the other, it will be hardly sustainable not to revise the constituencies. The Reichstag was elected in direct suffrage and the constituencies had not been revised since 1871. They had been roughly fair back then, but the massive urbanization led to stark imbalances.
Needless to say that this helped the Conservatives and especially hit the SPD.

Also, given the credit the SPD had gained during the "Burgfrieden", post-war Reichskanzlers might be ready to include them into the government nevertheless.

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Almost certainly, there will not be open Revolution and Civil War. This will cut back a lot of the radicalization on the left and right which can be traced back to OTL's Events of 1918/19.
OTL's Freikorps guys will not run around wreaking havoc, but many of them will find a home within the German Forces which will again be the size of the pre-war ones (instead of forced down to 100,000).

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The hyperinflation will not happen as there are no excuses (reparations, Ruhr occupation) for it. There will still be considerable Inflation, yet Germany will have to pay back at least a good deal of its internal war debt, probably through rising taxes.
This will keep the (upper-)middle class a bit more afloat.
 
A nation's society is at least partially moulded by its neighbours, and the big one here is Russia, do they go through a revolution?
 
All loans up to the DoW were secured of Allied property/investments in America, so the lenders would not have lost heir money. Unsecured loans were made only after the US declared war, and wouldn't have happened otherwise.

Quite true.
Although I seem to remember that by 1917 most of the available property had already been used to secure loans? Meaning that - if true - the amount of loans would have gone down without an American DoW?

There is also the fact that Britain made war loans to France, Belgium, Serbia and Russia. And later on Italy.
If defeated, the British would have to worry about these loans being paid back.

Also, I've heard it argued that it was the promotion of huge tranches of war bonds in 1917-18 that accustomed ordinary Americans to buying bonds, shares etc. If that is true, then without it you probably don't get the frenetic buying of 1928, which led to the bubble bursting the following year.

I haven´t heard that before. And it makes a certain amount of sense.
 
A nation's society is at least partially moulded by its neighbours, and the big one here is Russia, do they go through a revolution?

Depends once again on when the war ends I suppose.
It´s a bit like the timetable wietze and rast described for Germany.

A quick CP victory (1915) would strengthen the old order in Germany and would defer more democratic reforms. But not make them impossible. Just defer them for a few years or decade.
A quick defeat for Russia on the other hand would probably save the monarchy for now although the "murmur" would get louder. So you might see a more powerful Duma if Nicholas II is smart (or has smart advisers)?

A late CP victory (1917) would discredit the German "ancient regime". Sacrifices at the front and at home while Emperor Wilhelm II does rear echelon battlefield tourism and is seen as generally ineffective (and incompetent). Calls for a constitutional monarchy with severely limited rights of the Emperor are now pretty much unavoidable.
In the case of Russia a 1917 defeat will lead to a revolution. That´s almost unavoidable. Depending on the "month" of the revolution, the result might be:

  1. a constitutional monarchy with something other than Nicholas II (he has to abdicate in any case if he wants to keep a Romanov on the throne),
  2. a republic or
  3. a civil war in case Lenin already arrived in Russia and started agitating.
However in a CP- victory scenario even in late 1917 Germany will oppose a Bolshevik Russia. And with WW1 ended they will have more than enough military surplus and military advisers to assist any opponents.

Possible land losses for Russia will depend on the actual date for the end of the war too.

Things in France however might get interesting?
A second defeat inside 50 years, this time even with Britain and Russia as allies? All the sacrifices in vain? Northern France devastated. And war loans to be paid back to Britain, the USA and the French public?
 
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