German-Russian-British Alliance in a WWI?

(Put this in the Before 1900-Forum to make early POD's possible.

Inspired by the recent 'Unbeatable Alliance' thread, I ask you all the question of what would happen in the case of Germany, Britain and Russia allying with each other. I know this sounds implausible, which it is, as Britain was forced to choose IOTL between German naval agression and quarrels with the Russians in Central Asia. Yet, let's imagine that for some reason, this does happen.

The questions I ask are:

- What is the most probable POD for this? I had thought of a German-Russian alliance in 1878, much like Onkel Willie described in his 'Twin Eagles And the Lion' TL, and adding to that a Fashoda crisis (Britain realizes that France is in trouble already and decides to try to get as much as they can, France draws the line somewhere, tensions rise and an incident spirals everything out of control and sees Britain declaring war on France) or something similar, but there might be other options.
- Is this alliance truly unbeatable? We could attempt to get the USA on the other side, as well as a militarized China. Maybe that would make the war tougher for this alliance, although I'm sure that eventually, they would stand victorious.

So, what are your ideas?
 

Susano

Banned
Well, IOTL the connection between GB and Russia was France, so that is a bit diffcult here. And of course a full German-Russian alliance only works if Germany drops A-H. Thats possible, of course, but wont be exactly popular in Germany. And seeing that France is the power most willing to invest economically into Russia it is also the natural ally for the country...

I dont know. If Francis Joseph dies early while Rudolph does not commit suicide, then an A-H under him might align itself with France, forcing germany to choose Russia instead. If then France is more aggressive in colonial affairs, GB might rather tend to the German-Russian than the Franco-Austrian side. Such a war would have to be in the 1890s or 1900s, though, when colonial conflicts are still fresh, and before the populations in Germany and Austria can do something about the diplomatic hostilities between their countries by pressuring their governments...

Also, as a point of order, I dont think you can call the "Risikoflotte" policiy naval agression. Idiocy, yes, but not agression. It never even aimed at reaching British naval levels, only at breaking the Two Powers Standard.
 
d'oh... I only see this thread now. It kind of has a similar premise to what I had in mind, yet tackles things from an utterly different direction (I was mainly asking about a huge African threatre). :eek:
 
One could easily get increasing tensions between France and Britain over colonial affaires. And to reconcile Britain and Russia, you'd need a common foe and a good negotiator. IOTL, that was the role of France. ITTL, this should be done by Germany - quite ASB given OTLs personality of the people in charge, in particular Wilhelm II. So you'd have to change that.

Finally, a major obstacle comes into mind which was already discussed in the German-Russo thread: What can Germany gain from this? In this alliance, Russia will sooner or later grow stronger than Germany. At the same time, Britain should profit more in colonial affaires and will likely try to keep the balance of power. Thus Germany would have one ally which does not want Germany to dominate the continent and another ally which is about to dominate the continent simply by economic and demographic development. Whereas such an alliance is IMHO truly unbeatable (don't forget to add Italy, Serbia, Greece and Romania into it), it ensures that Germany will never reach the dominant part: on land, it will be surpassed by the Russians sooner or later, on sea, it is surpassed by the British.
 

Typo

Banned
It's an alliance which makes no sense

Why does Britain want a continent dominated by Russia and Germany?
 
It's an alliance which makes no sense

Why does Britain want a continent dominated by Russia and Germany?
Which side would be more likely to support something close to the status quo ante, a German-Russian alliance or a Franco-Austro-Hungarian one?
 
To be honest, no one makes clearly unbeatable alliances. France, Austria-Hungary, and the Ottoman Empire vs. Germany, Britain, and Russia? The war would turn into a partition.
Now, amplify the strength of the Austrians and French, and even a recognisable Germany starts looking to Russia for protection against the French colossus and the Austrians looking for more of Germany. Another 18th-century style conflict erupts in Europe...
 
Well you did have the Dreikaiserbund for a while, and if Britain and Russia make common cause against the Ottoman Empire you can find a way to make it play out

Would a French Restoration make things that bit more interestiing? Have Chambord die and the Orleanists return...

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 

Susano

Banned
It's an alliance which makes no sense

Why does Britain want a continent dominated by Russia and Germany?

The British Foreign Office has many smart and knowledgeable people, but it does not include and has never included any precogs ;)

As said, a full-out alliance of the UK with Germany and Russia is unlikely, but if some godforsaken colonial conflict between the UK and France spirals out of control, then the UK could find itself on the same side as those two by virtue of diplomatic happenstance, even if surely doesnt want them to dominate the continent.
 

Typo

Banned
The British Foreign Office has many smart and knowledgeable people, but it does not include and has never included any precogs ;)

As said, a full-out alliance of the UK with Germany and Russia is unlikely, but if some godforsaken colonial conflict between the UK and France spirals out of control, then the UK could find itself on the same side as those two by virtue of diplomatic happenstance, even if surely doesnt want them to dominate the continent.
Not for long, countries are actually really good at getting over their differences over worthless colonies when actually important stuff comes along
 

Susano

Banned
Not for long, countries are actually really good at getting over their differences over worthless colonies when actually important stuff comes along

True, but governments arent all-controlling actors as you made them have it. If there is a war fever in the UK, then there might be simply no time to think things over. The government might then go "shit shit shit, now the control the mainland" once things are over, but for the moment they might simply be happy to have cobelligerents in a war.

It might not be very probable, but its certainly possible, IMO.
 

Typo

Banned
True, but governments arent all-controlling actors as you made them have it. If there is a war fever in the UK, then there might be simply no time to think things over. The government might then go "shit shit shit, now the control the mainland" once things are over, but for the moment they might simply be happy to have cobelligerents in a war.

It might not be very probable, but its certainly possible, IMO.
public opinion rarely wars unless government wants it anyway
 
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