German Philippines, Guam, Marianas, & Caroline Islands
- Thread starter herricks
- Start date
We've to choice: 1) Spain is so impoverish in debt that need to sold the most far away colonies(Cuba was still profitable and something of prestige) and either late bismarck or young Willy II snatch a deal about it, france will not be happy, the brits will want some 'safety compromises' but the cow trading goes without problem. This one feel a little difficult spain was so desesperated to not loss prestige.
2) Something happen and both Spain and Germany goes to war, Spain goes beaten and germany snatch their pacific colonies(the american ones doesn't bother or come all along), more difficult but seems a little more pausable
MarshalBraginsky
Banned
A worse Carlist Wars that thoroughly FUBARs Spain's economy could result in Spain needing to sell all of its colonies to any power that is desperate. Germany could buy those colonies from Spain.
Or, Germany helps Spain against the United States and offers to buy the Philippines after the US is booted out of Asia after a different result of the Spanish-American War.
Tongue-in-cheek:
Since his maternal grandmother was Stephanie de Beauharnais, Prince Leopold of Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen somehow *big handwave* esteblishes good personal relations to the court of Napoleon III.
So when he is offered the throne of Spain, France shrugs. In 1870, King Leopoldo I. is crowned. In 1872, he is chased away again.
In the meantime, he sells the Spanish East Indies to Prussia. Later Spanish government deny that this sale was legally valid, but do not attempt to fight it out.
Since his maternal grandmother was Stephanie de Beauharnais, Prince Leopold of Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen somehow *big handwave* esteblishes good personal relations to the court of Napoleon III.
So when he is offered the throne of Spain, France shrugs. In 1870, King Leopoldo I. is crowned. In 1872, he is chased away again.
In the meantime, he sells the Spanish East Indies to Prussia. Later Spanish government deny that this sale was legally valid, but do not attempt to fight it out.
They got the latter two OTL, buying them from Spain in 1899 after Spain's empire was gutted in the Spanish-American War.
Umm depend, the americas wanted cub so much that if US and Germany are friendly(and maybe close to un official allies) the germans in the case of a german-spanish war, they can easy ask the american to get spanish carribean when they get africa and east asia/indies or simple they don't care at all and german take all(and maybe sold something like puerto rico as good faith symbol)
So war or complete bankrupt would be the best options, the spanish carribean is just a nice bonus
The issue I have is how Germany is going to conquer Philippines with pod late 1800s. The logistics and the local manpower is challenge to fight with. In OTL, US got it thru deception and then thru its massive military and industry which had to fight 3 years in Luzon and another 10 years in Mindanao.
Germany is not at parity with the US even in late 1800s nor even its bases nearer than US. It would be a logistics nightmare and a bloody long war.
Philippines aint easy pickings like the rest of the Spanish East Indies or South east asia in the late 1800s due to local presence of western organization, western education, western technology.
But then again, there is a loophole on all of this. Why should Germany conquer and waste a lot of resources when the locals will welcome them as an ally or protector due to its pro German alignment in the late 1800s.
Driftless
Donor
IF the Imperial Germans were able to sustain occupation of the Philippines and other pacific islands, I can imagine significant butterflies during WW1.
In Africa, the Imperial Germans by comparison to other European powers often worked better with the local populations than the British, French, and certainly the Belgians. As a by-product, the local fighting forces were also comparatively often much more effective than the other powers. German held Philippines could have been a massive problem for the Allied powers in WW1. Thousands of islands and anchorages for commerce raiders & U-boats to work from, and think of von Lettow-Vorbek on Luzon, or Mindano, or Samar, etc.; instead of German East-Africa.
In Africa, the Imperial Germans by comparison to other European powers often worked better with the local populations than the British, French, and certainly the Belgians. As a by-product, the local fighting forces were also comparatively often much more effective than the other powers. German held Philippines could have been a massive problem for the Allied powers in WW1. Thousands of islands and anchorages for commerce raiders & U-boats to work from, and think of von Lettow-Vorbek on Luzon, or Mindano, or Samar, etc.; instead of German East-Africa.
thats something i'm looking at but first i need to figure out the best way to get them it
Well, for Mindanao's case, you got to have Germany invent .45 or import it from the US or even know that they need those kind of weapons. Of course, if ever the US invents it or allows Germany to have those weapons. Otherwise, Germany would be in a losing end vs the Moros. I am also assuming that Germany can overcome the lack of infrastructure in Mindanao.
Luzon is much easier to deal than Mindanao. Maybe 3-5 years give or take with the assumption that Germany does the same as USA due to Luzon having railroads, roads and semblance of western civilization with the locals fighting like the west/conventional warfare.
These are all under the assumption that the islands are with no foreign power backing. Even a weak power like Spain can tilt the balance of power in favor of the locals.
One of the reasons that McKinley decided to keep the PI was to keep it out of the hands of the Germans. The German Asiatic fleet came sniffing around Manila Bay after the US victory and the USN politely asked them to leave. If the anti-imperialism lobby is stronger, and Aguinaldo a little more flexible the USA might not take the PI and be satisfied with Puerto Rico, Guam, Hawaii (not taken from Spanish but annexed same time) & a friendly subservient Cuba.
If the USA passes on the PI Germany might very well take some or all of it. One possibility is they support Aguinaldo for the northern (Christian) PI, and "pacify" the southern (Muslim) PI and occupy them. If Germany has all/part of the PI as well as the other former Spanish islands (except Guam) this will mean Germany will have a stronger naval and military presence in the Pacific during WWI which will make some differences although in the end doubt it will matter (no Coronel, no Falklands if the Germans can go to PI to be safe).
If the USA passes on the PI Germany might very well take some or all of it. One possibility is they support Aguinaldo for the northern (Christian) PI, and "pacify" the southern (Muslim) PI and occupy them. If Germany has all/part of the PI as well as the other former Spanish islands (except Guam) this will mean Germany will have a stronger naval and military presence in the Pacific during WWI which will make some differences although in the end doubt it will matter (no Coronel, no Falklands if the Germans can go to PI to be safe).
It would but I think we are at a point of how can Germany possibly conquer the whole Spanish East Indies with its resources in the late 19th century with a POD in the late 19th century.
Maybe Germany can just buy Spanish east indies in 1880s instead from Spain instead of pursuing OTL New Guniea colony. All it needs is a willing Spain and a willing German treasury worth 40-50M pesetas or around 35M marks.
The local propaganda movement will probably welcome it more than the alternative which is remain with Spain.
I know it goes against the OP, but maybe Germany can get the Philippines and, as a compromise, the British get the rest of the Spanish East Indies?
Why would the British want the remaining of the Spanish East indies when OTL Philippines is more valuable than OTL Guam/Palau/Marianas- resource wise, strategic wise, business wise?
The superpower of the day never gets the shorter end of the stick especially from an emerging power/competitor like Germany.