German Oil Company

kernals12

Banned
Oil is easier to extract and to refine as Coal, what need complex technique like mining or cracking into Coke or Liquidation in fuel.
next to that offer Oil more byproduct as Coal, also has Oil higher energy content for combustion engine as fuel made from Coal. (if i remember that right).
I don't think that's right. Gasoline is Gasoline no matter where it comes from.
 

kernals12

Banned
it's horribly inefficient and expensive. Only made sense in WWII.
6 tons of lignite Coal for 1000 liters of fuel, and that's not counting the input energy to steamcrack it
It also made sense for Apartheid South Africa to avoid the impacts of international sanctions on their fuel supply.
 

kernals12

Banned
If a German company were to develop the oilfields of other countries, then those countries may be more inclined to support the Nazis in WW2.
 
I don't think that's right. Gasoline is Gasoline no matter where it comes from.

'Gasoline' isn't what has been marketed for the past hundred years. It's a marketing name that has covered a hydrocarbon fuel that has ranged from 50 octane of 1900 to 140 Octane of WWII. It's a mix of many different hydrocarbons, only of which a small portion is actual 'gasoline'
Synthetic Gasoline is more consistent of how many hydrogen and carbon molecules is has per mol than the refined stuff.

It's better than than the 1900 stuff, not as good as the 1944
 
Not what i was asking about.
My point is in the Wilhelmine era, best to use coal for existing industries.

Now Germany could make money having Hamburg host something large like the Standard Oil Bayway refinery in New Jersey, crude gets shipped in, refined material sent out by rain and barge to distribute to rest of the continent, than OTL's smaller refinery at Harburg.

But with little source of domestic crude, makes little sense to convert industry over to Oil beside road transportation needs
 

kernals12

Banned
My point is in the Wilhelmine era, best to use coal for existing industries.

Now Germany could make money having Hamburg host something large like the Standard Oil Bayway refinery in New Jersey, crude gets shipped in, refined material sent out by rain and barge to distribute to rest of the continent, than OTL's smaller refinery at Harburg.

But with little source of domestic crude, makes little sense to convert industry over to Oil beside road transportation needs
It's a lot cheaper to import oil from Persia or Romania than to convert coal.
 
If a German company were to develop the oilfields of other countries, then those countries may be more inclined to support the Nazis in WW2.

Standard Oil was involved in the development of Rumanian & Austrian oil patches. The Koch family oil empire founder was very busy engineering a modern oil industry in the USSR in the 1920s, but those connections did not translate to significant alliances. In the 1930s the nazi government midwifed financing Davis Oil in the US to assist their imports. Cant see that got them much political traction.
 

kernals12

Banned
Standard Oil was involved in the development of Rumanian & Austrian oil patches. The Koch family oil empire founder was very busy engineering a modern oil industry in the USSR in the 1920s, but those connections did not translate to significant alliances. In the 1930s the nazi government midwifed financing Davis Oil in the US to assist their imports. Cant see that got them much political traction.
Romania was an axis country.
 
Romania was an axis country.

It was from 1940. Previously it had gradually moved from the Little Entente with France to a neutral stance. Soviet demands and the defeat of France left Rumania with affiliation with Germany as the last good option. In any case Standard Oil had been one of several major players in the development of Rumanian petrol industry Standard Oil was also active in development of the small Austrian oil deposit through the interwar years.
 

kernals12

Banned
It was from 1940. Previously it had gradually moved from the Little Entente with France to a neutral stance. Soviet demands and the defeat of France left Rumania with affiliation with Germany as the last good option. In any case Standard Oil had been one of several major players in the development of Rumanian petrol industry Standard Oil was also active in development of the small Austrian oil deposit through the interwar years.
But what about countries whose economies are absolutely dependent on oil like Iran or Saudi Arabia? Also, which Standard Oil? Remember, the firm was broken up in 1911 into 34 different companies.
 
... Also, which Standard Oil? Remember, the firm was broken up in 1911 into 34 different companies.

The Rockefeller family recovered. Standard Oil returned to status as a major global player. There were several 400kg Gorillas in the room & they were one of them.

But what about countries whose economies are absolutely dependent on oil like Iran or Saudi Arabia? ...

Saudi Arabia was producing insignificant amounts of oil in the 1940s. The east Arabian ocean of oil had not yet been discovered. Iran was not much dependent on oil until much later. The early agreements pretty much put all the profits into the foreign oil companies. The Shah or Iraqi royalty got some chump change & the benefits of oilfield labor income were localized.

Germany does have the opportunity under this PoD to enhance its share of the Mosul or Abadan oil fields pre 1914. There was some German investment. IIRC in partnership with British and Dutch petroleum companies. They tended to act together to take advantage of the locals.

Anyway, my point is economic investment of any sort did not guarantee political alliance. Otherwise the global divide would have been between the London and New York mega banks of the era. Japan was heavily indebted to US banks, purchased the bulk of its oil, machine tools, chemicals, alloys, & other stuff from US businesses. The US was a critical export market for Japan. That did not prevent Japans leaders from aligning with the Axis and attacking the US.
 

kernals12

Banned
The Rockefeller family recovered. Standard Oil returned to status as a major global player. There were several 400kg Gorillas in the room & they were one of them.



Saudi Arabia was producing insignificant amounts of oil in the 1940s. The east Arabian ocean of oil had not yet been discovered. Iran was not much dependent on oil until much later. The early agreements pretty much put all the profits into the foreign oil companies. The Shah or Iraqi royalty got some chump change & the benefits of oilfield labor income were localized.

Germany does have the opportunity under this PoD to enhance its share of the Mosul or Abadan oil fields pre 1914. There was some German investment. IIRC in partnership with British and Dutch petroleum companies. They tended to act together to take advantage of the locals.


Anyway, my point is economic investment of any sort did not guarantee political alliance. Otherwise the global divide would have been between the London and New York mega banks of the era. Japan was heavily indebted to US banks, purchased the bulk of its oil, machine tools, chemicals, alloys, & other stuff from US businesses. The US was a critical export market for Japan. That did not prevent Japans leaders from aligning with the Axis and attacking the US.
IOTL the proposal was debated and failed to pass the Reichstag in November 1912. Let's assume it passes and the company starts operations in January 1913, how much can be done in 18 months?
 
Also, which Standard Oil? Remember, the firm was broken up in 1911 into 34 different companies.

The Seven Sisters, the Gorillas Carl mentioned
  1. Anglo-Iranian Oil Company (now BP)
  2. Gulf Oil (later part of Chevron)
  3. Royal Dutch Shell
  4. Standard Oil Company of California (SoCal, now Chevron)
  5. Standard Oil Company of New Jersey (Esso, later Exxon, now part of ExxonMobil)
  6. Standard Oil Company of New York (Socony, later Mobil, also now part of ExxonMobil)
  7. Texaco (later merged into Chevron)
 
Let's take a look to to this success story

in 1890 founded was the N.V. Koninklijke Maatschappij Tot Exploatatie van Petroleumbronnen in Neederländisch-Indie
A Dutch Oil company with 25% of shares in hand of King Wilhelm III of Netherlands
But the Company missing transport capacity
in 1890 founded was The Shell Transport and Trading Company p.l.c.
British company specialized in transport of Oil, kerosine, but missing production capacity
1907 both companies united into Royal Dutch Shell
Today Shell is one biggest oil companies in World

I think Emperor Wilhelm II could alternative buy shares of DEA and founding new Oil Company with him as share holder
a company specialized into in transport of Oil, the Deutsche Gesellschaft für Öltransporte DGÖ
Wilhelm II love Shipbuilding, so building the biggest Oil Tankers fleet of it time would be quite fun for him

DGÖ could fusion with DEA also into one company under name DEA
 
No wwi, they acquire the contracts to develop wells in Iraq and maybe Saudi Arabia. German engineering would have likely been superior to anyone outside the us, uk and French. At that point it’s great power politics that determines who gets the contacts.

Without the Great War my understanding is that Germany had 25% of the concession in Mesopotamia and by extension the OE, junior to the British interest/control. We know they had drilling right to land abutting the railway right of way, maybe that is added to or part of the overall split. Here I think Germany develops a good exploration base and has incentive to develop rail transport of oil. It makes more sense to ship oil to the Gulf and ship it to Europe by tanker but strategic considerations might have Germany pursuing shipment by rail homeward and develop pipelines later. Getting good data of oil in this region has been distorted by the long period of conflict but I tend to believe the German share would still be significant but not enough to meet her domestic needs if Germany does not act to reduce oil dependence. She still needs other oil imports. The big game changer might be how the Ottomans reassert authority down the coast, the area between Kuwait and Qatar was more solidly Ottoman and I think they can gain it back, that is the major field for Saudi so even if the interior remains wandering bandits and feuding brigands the OE and by extension Germany become one of the bigger players by the 1960s or 1970s here. And I assume Britain holds on to more so it is much more an oil giant. For me I have Standard Oil of New Jersey invest in Germany to leverage into the OE and support American exports to Europe, I think OTL supports that. The bigger dynamic is how the OE can better spend the oil revenue spread over the region rather than concentrate it in the hands of some wealthy Kingdoms. It encourages more reciprocity in the flow of Petro Dollars and perhaps as significantly it might be transacted all in Pounds. The larger development over the middle east should bring big butterflies.
 
Let's take a look to to this success story

in 1890 founded was the N.V. Koninklijke Maatschappij Tot Exploatatie van Petroleumbronnen in Neederländisch-Indie
A Dutch Oil company with 25% of shares in hand of King Wilhelm III of Netherlands
But the Company missing transport capacity
in 1890 founded was The Shell Transport and Trading Company p.l.c.
British company specialized in transport of Oil, kerosine, but missing production capacity
1907 both companies united into Royal Dutch Shell
Today Shell is one biggest oil companies in World

I think Emperor Wilhelm II could alternative buy shares of DEA and founding new Oil Company with him as share holder
a company specialized into in transport of Oil, the Deutsche Gesellschaft für Öltransporte DGÖ
Wilhelm II love Shipbuilding, so building the biggest Oil Tankers fleet of it time would be quite fun for him

DGÖ could fusion with DEA also into one company under name DEA

And I think the OTL development of the German Merchant Marine (Deutsche Handelsflotte) supports Germany pursuing both tankers and larger ones too. For my part I have Germany retard the conversion from coal to oil in the Navy for strategic reasons but pursue big diesels in the commercial shipbuilding industry. Germany has a path forward to innovate shipbuilding and another British sanctuary industry to erode. I think this also promotes the Navy and encourages more fleet activity in the Med to protect the tankers moving oil from the OE towards Friedrichshaven. For my part I put the early bunkerage for the Navy there and it follows that refineries follow, it is still a good choice for an oil terminal and refined products can be exported or shipped inland easily. Strategic considerations promote refinery building inland as the industry grows. Thus for me there is a "national" German oil company/cartel, Shell and Esso working to dominate the continental oil market(s) from Germany. Germany by my estimates should be importing around 4 million barrels a day in the modern day so that is how I scale the German oil industry. And when I allow for access to Gulf natural gas via pipeline across the OE and the Balkans, I tend to see huge growth across that region due to access to "cheap" gas.
 
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