German Oil Company

kernals12

Banned
In my rummaging of the New York Times' archives, I found out that in 1912, Kaiser Wilhelm wanted to create a state oil monopoly to wean the nation off of Standard Oil. The plan failed to pass the Reichstag. Germany is quite unique among Western European nations for not ever having a state owned oil company. Britain (BP), France (Total), Italy (Eni), and the Netherlands (Shell) have or have had them. If the plan had come to fruition, what impact would DeutschesErdol have on the oil industry or world politics in general?
 

NoMommsen

Donor
In my rummaging of the New York Times' archives, I found out that in 1912, Kaiser Wilhelm wanted to create a state oil monopoly to wean the nation off of Standard Oil. The plan failed to pass the Reichstag. Germany is quite unique among Western European nations for not ever having a state owned oil company. Britain (BP), France (Total), Italy (Eni), and the Netherlands (Shell) have or have had them. If the plan had come to fruition, what impact would DeutschesErdol have on the oil industry or world politics in general?
Hmmm, might have been a state-supported (?) merger of the DEA (Deutsche Erdöl Aktiengesellschaft founded 1899), active in their 'own rights' until 2013 and the DPAG (Deutsche Petroleum Aktiengesellschaft, founded 1904, merged with the OLEX of Austria under pressure of British Petroleum in 1926 and eventually taken over by the latter.
 
Where would this German company extract oil? Did the Germans have the technology for North Sea extraction at this time(pre 1914)? Maybe the company would have operated in a colony or in cooperation with the Ottomans.
 

NoMommsen

Donor
Austria, Romania, Russia. They bought it there. ... Oh, and northern, eastern, southern Germany as well where they drilled for historically ... and until this century still do.

They actually had some of the most sophisticated and productive raffineries in Europe running.
(U know ... chemistry 'n stuff)
 
Where would this German company extract oil? Did the Germans have the technology for North Sea extraction at this time(pre 1914)? Maybe the company would have operated in a colony or in cooperation with the Ottomans.

Nope the North Sea oil fields were unknown then and first usable offshore oil platform came in 1930s in Texas, USA
but so strange it sound but Germany is a Oil production nation, not much today 46,839 tonnes a year, put it on place 55 of top 100 oil producer.
most field are located in Lower Saxony and today Mecklenburg-Vorpommern also small one in Baden-Württemberg and Bavaria
Exploration of those fields were in hand of the DEA (Deutsche Erdöl Aktiengesellschaft)

This is interesting here if DEA becomes state owned oil company in 1912.

Others German companies were more creative like ARAL
a consortium of German Coal mining industry (in 1930s better now as "Benzol-Verband" ) who produce Benzol and sold Petrol-Benzol-spirit mix as ARAL car fuel

DAPG (Deutsch-Amerikanische Petroleum Gesellschaft) today ESSO, make same Petrol-Benzol-spirit mix
Only difference DAPG was part of US Standard Oil...
 

BlondieBC

Banned
Where would this German company extract oil? Did the Germans have the technology for North Sea extraction at this time(pre 1914)? Maybe the company would have operated in a colony or in cooperation with the Ottomans.

Austrian Poland had 10% of world oil production. Romania was another 10%. The Germans had identified petroleum deposits in Cameroon. A big push for a joint venture with the Ottomans around Mosul Iraq is possible.

So a lot of the impact depends on how much support the company gets and how WW1 goes. Unless WW1 is butterflied away or the CP win, this company is being formed too late to have a big impact. If passed in 1912, it is probably a few years before we see major effects, and by then we are in WW1. And if limited funding, it may also have a big impact. But on the other hand, if you have these two variables go favorable, it will have a potentially huge impact.

  • German National Oil will likely be a driver of tighter integration of the Romanian economy into Germany. Lots of potential investment, lots of potential transportation routes built.
  • German National Oil may well be the mechanism for much of the German invest in the Ottoman empire. There is a need now for the Berlin to Baghdad Railroad and funding too. You might well see pipelines to a coastline somewhere so German tankers can ship oil to Germany. This makes the naval game different. And the alliance game. Probably more than 10 years in the future of 1912, but by 1922, the whole strategic game could change.
  • Cameroon got almost no funding. If the Germans drill for oil here, the investment is huge compared to the existing OTL investment. So is the white population size. And again, shipping oil from West Africa to Germany will make the world look different to German Policy makers.
  • And there are other areas, it could have a big impact. Good relations with the Dutch and access to the oil of the Dutch East Indies looks attractive. Maybe we could see joint Dutch/German oil fields, refineries, or tanker fleets.
 

kernals12

Banned
Where would this German company extract oil? Did the Germans have the technology for North Sea extraction at this time(pre 1914)? Maybe the company would have operated in a colony or in cooperation with the Ottomans.
Italy and France have no or negligible oil. I assume this company would, like Total and Eni, focus on domestic refining and foreign extraction. Probably Romania until 1944 and then everywhere else afterward.
 
In my rummaging of the New York Times' archives, I found out that in 1912, Kaiser Wilhelm wanted to create a state oil monopoly to wean the nation off of Standard Oil. The plan failed to pass the Reichstag. Germany is quite unique among Western European nations for not ever having a state owned oil company. Britain (BP), France (Total), Italy (Eni), and the Netherlands (Shell) have or have had them. If the plan had come to fruition, what impact would DeutschesErdol have on the oil industry or world politics in general?

I think one massive what-if to also tie would be if the Central Powers won. The Ottomans would still be around enough for them to discover oil in Arabia. My guess would be that one of the oil sites (maybe one in Arabia or what woudl be Kuwait) would be for the Germans to use in exchange for the Germans having help the Ottomans modernize.
 
Italy and France have no or negligible oil. I assume this company would, like Total and Eni, focus on domestic refining and foreign extraction. Probably Romania until 1944 and then everywhere else afterward.

That is how I evolve the German oil industry post-Great War with an undefeated Germany. I keep the "state" oil company more cartel like and quasi-private, a thing Germany seems more likely to do, and I have it partner more with Royal Dutch Shell and Standard Oil, the former in DEI and the later to leverage any position in the OE/Arabia. I feel Germany might be a bigger importer of American oil and from American developed fields, Venezuela, Mexico, etc. The retail side looks competitive but highly cartel working, Esso and Shell might be actual players but refineries are strictly a cartel and more national but still a role for Shell and SO, especially as Germany diversifies into DEI imports and works with SO to exploit fields globally as the USA and Germany now seek to disrupt the imperial holds on those resources. I could see Germany one of the big five players in oil. Interesting to see how it gets into the North Sea and Norway, trades with or aids Russia, nips at BP or gets the German government to promote revolution in Persia to get at Anglo-Persia concessions, the ugly side of big oil.
 
No wwi, they acquire the contracts to develop wells in Iraq and maybe Saudi Arabia. German engineering would have likely been superior to anyone outside the us, uk and French. At that point it’s great power politics that determines who gets the contacts.
 

BlondieBC

Banned

Whats the probable dynamics between this enhanced effort at German oil development and the large coal deposits ?





Are you saying the amounts of each used won't change, or maybe the proportions. Can you elaborate?

I assumed you are talking about coal to liquid conversion. This will not happen on scale until the economics force it or a major war occurs. IOTL, prices spike about 1970 when Texas ran out of spare capacity. In an ATL where there are no major blockades of Germany, coal to liquid conversion will not be considered for 5 or more decades.

My view is that coal consumption and oil consumption will remain largely separate markets, barring a war and a crash program of coal to liquid fuel.

What a National German Oil company will do is change the ownership and perhaps the order major oil fields are exploit. While hard to predict, I can give an example. If the relatively minor Cameroon fields are developed, then we have accelerated the entire West African exploitation. Or perhaps the Germans invest heavily in Iraq, and we get the Kuwait fields coming on line sooner.
 
I assumed you are talking about coal to liquid conversion. This will not happen on scale until the economics force it or a major war occurs. IOTL, prices spike about 1970 when Texas ran out of spare capacity. In an ATL where there are no major blockades of Germany, coal to liquid conversion will not be considered for 5 or more decades.

No

My view is that coal consumption and oil consumption will remain largely separate markets, barring a war and a crash program of coal to liquid fuel.

What a National German Oil company will do is change the ownership and perhaps the order major oil fields are exploit. While hard to predict, I can give an example. If the relatively minor Cameroon fields are developed, then we have accelerated the entire West African exploitation. Or perhaps the Germans invest heavily in Iraq, and we get the Kuwait fields coming on line sooner.

Among other things I was wondering if petroleum fuels would be more competitive in Germany vs coal, & if so what portions of industry would find it better to convert. that may or may not affect the coal industry in terms of investment, and future capacity.
 

kernals12

Banned
No



Among other things I was wondering if petroleum fuels would be more competitive in Germany vs coal, & if so what portions of industry would find it better to convert. that may or may not affect the coal industry in terms of investment, and future capacity.
The prices of coal and oil are set on the world markets, whatever happens with this German oil company is irrelevant especially since its likely that this company would simply invest in the fields that other companies invested in IOTL.
 

BlondieBC

Banned
The prices of coal and oil are set on the world markets, whatever happens with this German oil company is irrelevant especially since its likely that this company would simply invest in the fields that other companies invested in IOTL.

That is correct, IMO. In peace time.
 
Whats the probable dynamics between this enhanced effort at German oil development and the large coal deposits ?

Oil is easier to extract and to refine as Coal, what need complex technique like mining or cracking into Coke or Liquidation in fuel.
next to that offer Oil more byproduct as Coal, also has Oil higher energy content for combustion engine as fuel made from Coal. (if i remember that right).
 
Whats the probable dynamics between this enhanced effort at German oil development and the large coal deposits ?

it's horribly inefficient and expensive. Only made sense in WWII.
6 tons of lignite Coal for 1000 liters of fuel, and that's not counting the input energy to steamcrack it
 
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