German Nationalism in the Netherlands

[TheNordicBrit]

Hey Guys,

I was wondering when the latest possibility for German nationalism to appear in the Netherlands would be? Did it simply disappear after the Dutch left the Holy Roman Empire and went their own way, or could it have been picked up later on?

I mean if, as implausible as this may be, Napoleon decided to merge the Kingdom of Holland and the Confederation of the Rhine, and this lasted, could a German nationalism arise and stick in the Netherlands?

I know that some Germans, even before the Nazis, viewed the Netherlands as essentially German land, though I'm unsure how much these feelings were shared.

So what's the latest POD for creating a German nationalism within the Netherlands? Note that I don't mean that there'd be no desires amongst many within the Netherlands for an independent Netherlands, as can be found in Bavaria today for example.

 

[Iori]

Their was never German Nationalism in the Netherlands at all; the Dutch identity formed before Nationalism developed.

 

[pompejus]

Their was never German Nationalism in the Netherlands at all; the Dutch identity formed before Nationalism developed.

Exactly. In 1648 the Netherlands left the Holy Roman Empire and any German Nationalism never formed. Outside of Limburg, which was part of the German Confederation, there simply noone who wanted to join Germany and even in Limburg it was a minority (and more people (still a minortiy) wanted to join Belgium than join Germany).

There was a sense of brotherhood with the German people. People felt the Germans were a siomilar, but different kind of people. One thing to realise though is that a large part of Dutch international politics in the 19th and early 20th century was to avoid being swallowed by Germany. When Wilhelmina became queen and was still too young to have children, a German noble would be next in line for the Dutch throne. The Dutch adapted the constitution to avoid him to become to remove him (and anyone else far enough removed) from the line of succession. It was not allowed for any monarch to be part of a personal union, in fear of being swallowed by the larger country.

In short it is hard for the Netherlands to join Germany willingly with any POD after 1600, unless jumping through quite a lot of hoops. Those hoops are for example being occupied by France, which is supressing any non-French identity and looking towards a German nation to liberate them from France.

 

[Vnix]

Exactly. In 1648 the Netherlands left the Holy Roman Empire and any German Nationalism never formed. Outside of Limburg, which was part of the German Confederation, there simply noone who wanted to join Germany and even in Limburg it was a minority (and more people (still a minortiy) wanted to join Belgium than join Germany).

There was a sense of brotherhood with the German people. People felt the Germans were a siomilar, but different kind of people. One thing to realise though is that a large part of Dutch international politics in the 19th and early 20th century was to avoid being swallowed by Germany. When Wilhelmina became queen and was still too young to have children, a German noble would be next in line for the Dutch throne. The Dutch adapted the constitution to avoid him to become to remove him (and anyone else far enough removed) from the line of succession. It was not allowed for any monarch to be part of a personal union, in fear of being swallowed by the larger country.

In short it is hard for the Netherlands to join Germany willingly with any POD after 1600, unless jumping through quite a lot of hoops. Those hoops are for example being occupied by France, which is supressing any non-French identity and looking towards a German nation to liberate them from France.

the personal union is not completely forbidden, Luxembourg may still form a personal union with us. There have also been voices in Suriname (so I've heard) who wish the Dutch queen/king to be the head of state again, which could theoretically happen too.

 

[pompejus]

the personal union is not completely forbidden, Luxembourg may still form a personal union with us. There have also been voices in Suriname (so I've heard) who wish the Dutch queen/king to be the head of state again, which could theoretically happen too.

Correct, Luxemburg was the exception mentioned in the constitution. Also this was removeed from the constitution in (Ithink) the 1980's, so now personal unions are allowed. This was probably done because a personal unions aren't likely and not as politically relevant as they were in the 19th or early 20th century.