German losses in a pre-Barbarossa invasion of Switzerland?

After the fall of France, what sort of losses would Germany sustain in an invasion of Switzerland? I know that the initial scenario is highly implausible, but I'm just interested in how badly the Swiss could maul the Wehrmacht and Luftwaffe.
 

Zeldar155

Banned
After the fall of France, what sort of losses would Germany sustain in an invasion of Switzerland? I know that the initial scenario is highly implausible, but I'm just interested in how badly the Swiss could maul the Wehrmacht and Luftwaffe.

I'm thinking WW1 type stalemate..
 
After the fall of France, what sort of losses would Germany sustain in an invasion of Switzerland? I know that the initial scenario is highly implausible, but I'm just interested in how badly the Swiss could maul the Wehrmacht and Luftwaffe.


the swiss prepared for this, some guys made some calculations about this...

switzerland is no tank-land, so you have paras and mountain troops... with all neighbours beeing german or german allied the swiss is helpless - but the germans will suffer huge losses - also they gain nothing out of this.

so crushing switzerland was something even hitler was to smart for... they planned it, but this plans had been a bad idea...
 
It would be nice to get an answer from someone who has detailed knowledge of the Swiss plans for countering a German invasion.


Google is your friend, also some infos had been shown in tv...

basically the swiss defend the central swiss and give up the "tank areas" in the north...
they had a lot defence preperations... so german losses would be very very high... you have only so and so much paras... hell- even a 1944-style allied invasion had been a bloodbath... for the allies. switzerland was a real taff nut, not easily to break
 
It would be interesting to see where in Europe would the centers of spy cells and underground radio brodcasts be based in case of an occupied Switzerland.
 
Operation Tannebaum would be a disaster. The German's had to cross in Swiss geography against fortifications and the best technology mass production had to offer. The Swiss were well prepared and would not have been caught off guard like other European nations. They knew something was coming.

I assume that if 300k-500k men invaded, there would be 60k-100k casualties (KIA, MIA, WIA), or a fifth of the invading forces. I calculated this because there were .21% casualties in the Pyrrhic Operation Mercury I took into account the Operation Mercury's target was an island and it was a much smaller force.

Now, all in all, I would guess that it would be another Pyrrhic Victory and would force Operation Barbarossa to be called off or even re-planned.

Though I suggest reading up on Operation Tannebaum, you can make these calculations for yourself, as I realize I could be WAY off.
 
Are paratroopers really that good of an idea? The terrain might be a bit tricky for organizing landings-- parachuting onto a mountainside is rather difficult, I understand, what with the crosswinds and rocky slopes.

If the paratroopers were to land in the urban areas and take hold of them, they might be hard-pressed to reach their targets in the first place. IIRC the Swiss air force was equipped with Bf 109s and other modern, metal-skinned monoplanes, and their performance IOTL against German and Allied planes straying over Swiss airspace was not too shabby.
 

Daffy Duck

Banned
Interesting question

Interesting question...the Swiss planned for an invasion and essentially planned to fight delaying actions at their borders and then retreat to alpine redoubts, leaving their population centers.
The germans would no doubt have planned for this, sending perhaps mountain troops or perhaps airborne troops to sieze the critical passes. I can see the Germans incurring some losses but they had such an overwhelming numerical superiority, I can't see how the invasion of Switzerland would last too long.

The U.S. would go ape over this but the $64 question is, would they have declared war on Germany because of the invasion? Maybe...certainly the Nazi's would greedily welcome the conquering of Switzerland, not only for good watches and chocolate but for all the gold being held in the banks.
 
The Germans would seize the major population centers and resource areas that the Swiss planned to give up, and then would leave the Swiss to starve to death in the Reduit.
 
Are paratroopers really that good of an idea? The terrain might be a bit tricky for organizing landings-- parachuting onto a mountainside is rather difficult, I understand, what with the crosswinds and rocky slopes.

If the paratroopers were to land in the urban areas and take hold of them, they might be hard-pressed to reach their targets in the first place. IIRC the Swiss air force was equipped with Bf 109s and other modern, metal-skinned monoplanes, and their performance IOTL against German and Allied planes straying over Swiss airspace was not too shabby.


Hi,

sure the swiss fighters were good... but with germany attacking them they have to figth big numbers of the same planes... they just have so much air strips... so no, swiss airforce isn´t the real problem.

paras can be used, but will suffer

the germans still need (and risk) em to take key positions... no in the mountains, more in internal switzerland...
 
Interesting question...the Swiss planned for an invasion and essentially planned to fight delaying actions at their borders and then retreat to alpine redoubts, leaving their population centers.
The germans would no doubt have planned for this, sending perhaps mountain troops or perhaps airborne troops to sieze the critical passes. I can see the Germans incurring some losses but they had such an overwhelming numerical superiority, I can't see how the invasion of Switzerland would last too long.

The U.S. would go ape over this but the $64 question is, would they have declared war on Germany because of the invasion? Maybe...certainly the Nazi's would greedily welcome the conquering of Switzerland, not only for good watches and chocolate but for all the gold being held in the banks.


well, germany would be more interested in oerlikons nice toys...

but the price would be way to high...
 
No, they wouldn't need to risk any troops. The Swiss plan actually involved giving up the major parts of Switzerland to go hide in the mountains. Once their food runs out after 3-4 months they'll have to surrender.
 
The Reduit, like Bataan, would only be useful if someone from outside were coming to rescue you pretty soon and you could then coordinate attacks down the mountain with that outside ally. If Hitler took over the Swiss lowlands and cities before Barbarossa (after the latter began, he would not have the resources to do so) this leaves the Swiss army sitting in its alpine caves for over three years, at least. If they make serious attacks from their caves, the Germans retaliate by destroying the Swiss cities one by one and killing civilian hostages ten to one. So, the Swiss only make small and cautious attacks. Still, the Germans would have to leave a large occupying force in Switzerland, like in Norway, and every soldier planted there would be one less soldier for the Eastern Front or for countering the Allies in Normandy. The same could be said for Norway, but the latter country did have strategic usefulness (submarine bases, ensuring strategic supplies from Sweden, keeping Allied bombers from using Norwegian air bases, keeping the British Home Fleet tried down at Scapa Flow out of fear of the Tirpitz). Occupying Switzerland, which was neutral and was willing to collaborate with the Nazis in useful ways, would have had no strategic value whatsoever.
 
The Reduit, like Bataan, would only be useful if someone from outside were coming to rescue you pretty soon and you could then coordinate attacks down the mountain with that outside ally. If Hitler took over the Swiss lowlands and cities before Barbarossa (after the latter began, he would not have the resources to do so) this leaves the Swiss army sitting in its alpine caves for over three years, at least. If they make serious attacks from their caves, the Germans retaliate by destroying the Swiss cities one by one and killing civilian hostages ten to one. So, the Swiss only make small and cautious attacks. Still, the Germans would have to leave a large occupying force in Switzerland, like in Norway, and every soldier planted there would be one less soldier for the Eastern Front or for countering the Allies in Normandy. The same could be said for Norway, but the latter country did have strategic usefulness (submarine bases, ensuring strategic supplies from Sweden, keeping Allied bombers from using Norwegian air bases, keeping the British Home Fleet tried down at Scapa Flow out of fear of the Tirpitz). Occupying Switzerland, which was neutral and was willing to collaborate with the Nazis in useful ways, would have had no strategic value whatsoever.


I reiterate that the Swiss had nowhere near the food supplies needed to sustain a guerilla resistance campaign from the mountain for more than a few months.
 
Modest losses for Germany.

They seize the border regions and cities against minimal resistance, then wait a few months before starvation forces the Swiss redoubt to surrender.

This assumes the Swiss resist for long on behalf of a government which has already abandoned their wives and children to the invader.
 
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