German invasion of America?

MacCaulay

Banned
I'm choosing to agree with everyone's logic and enjoy the book anyway. Logic never stopped a reader from enjoying an alternate history book.

Just look at all the Draka stuff on this site.
 

Markus

Banned
Yes. Dewey had to blockade Manila for a period after destroying the Spanish squadron and before US troops could arrive. German naval ships routinely ignored his blockade, so he threatened fire on them the next time it happened. He was quietly backed up by the RN in this and the Germans backed down.

The official US history of the spanish - american war is considerably less clear. It says France, Germany and the UK had warships in the area and the US suspected all of them were trying to take over the PI. No special mention is made of Germany.

The almost confrontation at Samoa was the making of the local commanders who ignored their superior´s orders who were not interested in a confrontation.


Your logic is basically along the lines of saying that the Allies couldn't have landed on D-Day successfully because of all the divisions the German military had in Europe at the time outnumbered them.

The Allies had more, better trained and better equipped divisions in the UK than Germany in France. And the Allies had air supremacy, the Germans barely had an air force at all.
 
The official US history of the spanish - american war is considerably less clear. It says France, Germany and the UK had warships in the area and the US suspected all of them were trying to take over the PI. No special mention is made of Germany.


Markus,

After ordering that the Germans send a representative aboard USS Olympia, Dewey specifically threatened the German commander's aide with war if German vessels kept ignoring the blockade. The exact quote was along the lines of "If your commander wants a war here I will give him one." Dewey's threats were backed up the RN commander on the scene.

The incident can be found in nearly any history of the war, such as Freidel's The Splendid Little War, and I've read it in biographies of Dewey also. During his abortive presidential campaign, Dewey even told reporters that the next war the US fought would be with Germany.


Bill
 
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Markus

Banned
The incident can be found in nearly any history of the war, such as Freidel's The Splendid Little War, and I've read it in biographies of Dewey also. During his abortive presidential campaign, Dewey even told reporters that the next war the US fought would be with Germany.


Bill

Still, the official history does not give more than passing mention to all three powers and I take what politicians say with a shipload of salt, a big shipload when they campaign. Testing the limits of the Americans might be just that...testing.
 
Still, the official history does not give more than passing mention to all three powers...


Markus,

Several historians of the war and Dewey's biographers have all mentioned the same incident in the same fashion with the same quote. The Germans were acting like Germans of that period acted and Dewey called them on it.

As for the official history of the war, such histories are not the end all and be all. For example, the official histories of WW2 didn't mention Enigma or Magic either.

... and I take what politicians say with a shipload of salt, a big shipload when they campaign.

Dewey threatened the Germans while still an admiral and not a politician. His not being a politician is also one of the reasons why his presidential campaign failed so quickly. His off-hand remarks about fighting Germany next actually helped end his campaign.

Testing the limits of the Americans might be just that...testing.

Or it might just have been Wilhelmine Germany acting like Wilhelmine Germany, a saber-rattling, blustering, collection of blowhards with a marked inferiority complex that started with Kaiser Bill and went all the way down.


Bill
 

Markus

Banned
Or it might just have been Wilhelmine Germany acting like Wilhelmine Germany, a saber-rattling, blustering, collection of blowhards with a marked inferiority complex that started with Kaiser Bill and went all the way down.


Bill

Wow, now that is an impressive collection of stereotypes, isn´t it. Let´s say the German officer in charge does not recognize the US blockade, a US warship opens fire a german ship might return fire -in case its a warship- and Germany and the US are going to war because of US Commodore said so? Besides:

The German fleet of eight ships, ostensibly in Philippine waters to protect German interests (a single import firm), acted provocatively--cutting in front of United States ships, refusing to salute the United States flag (according to naval courtesy), taking soundings of the harbor, and landing supplies for the besieged Spanish. Germany, hungry for the ultimate status symbol, a colonial empire, was eager to take advantage of whatever opportunities the conflict in the islands might afford. Dewey called the bluff of the German admiral, threatening a fight if his aggressive activities continued, and the Germans backed down.

http://countrystudies.us/philippines/13.htm


Like I said, a mere testing of the US intentions and how far the US would go.
 
Wow, now that is an impressive collection of stereotypes, isn´t it.


Markus,

No it isn't. Rather it's an accurate portrayal of the behavior of officials in Wilhelmine Germany as amply displayed in the very quote you provided:

"Germany,hungry for the ultimate status symbol, a colonial empire, was eager to take advantage of whatever opportunities the conflict in the islands might afford. Dewey called the bluff of the German admiral, threatening a fight if his aggressive activities continued, and the Germans backed down."

Nice litany isn't it? "Hungry", "eager to take advantage", "bluff", and "aggressive activities". Out of all the European observers there, only Wilhelmine Germany felt the need or saw an opportunity to behave in such a manner. Only Wilhelmine Germany.

Like I said, a mere testing of the US intentions and how far the US would go.

And like I said, only Wilhelmine Germany would have felt the need to test US intentions.

Am I suggesting that a general US - German war would have resulted if Dewey had to fire on German warships at Manila? No, of course not. But Wilhelmine Germany was acting provocatively, Wilhelmine Germany was the one bluffing, and Wilhelmine Germany was testing intentions.

With behavior like this, one wonders why Kaiser Bill and his nation were so surprised when they eventually found themselves "encircled" less than two decades later.


Bill
 
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