German invasion of America, 1898 (ish)

I'm happy I'm not the only one who read that bit as "the lines of the
immigrant inspection center at Ellis Island" rather than "the defensive lines
on Ellis Island".

I'm sorry (if) I just explained/spoiled somebody's joke.

Based on some of the serious-toned responses that David got, I'm glad you did. I personally laughed my ass off. :D
 
The one problem I have with this is WHY would they bother? Even if we assume that they can get the fleet there, and the transports with it without being sunk by US patrols, the question remains what on Earth do they hope to gain from it?

I have always wondered what a US-German war that broke out over the Samoa incident (eg assume no hurricaine) would have looked like? But honestly, I cannot see the point of throwing your army at the USA.

As others have pointed out, even if a strategic goal can be found (knock out New York and Washington forces the USA to give in) the other powers aren't going to stand around doing nothing. To be honest they'll probably be rolling about on the floor laughing!

I'm not so much one to assume that France, Russia etc actually want to go to WAR with Germany for the Hell of it, but it would be a perfect time to push EVERY anti-German plan, backing them up with the threat of war, and the ease with which the army on US soil can be so completely navally cut off.

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
OK, let's say Germany DOES do this...

Their biggest problem is that they've shot their bolt - getting the fleet across the Atlantic and landing say 100,000 men IS IT. They aren't getting any more, they aren't taking on another theatre. This is ALL the game in play.

As Conroy points out the US has regular army units overseas which can be brought back. They also have the state guards to mobilise, and the spirit of independently-raised volunteer regiments is still alive. Money isn't going to be a factor because with the Germans sitting in their financial heart the war is all or nothing, and money can be sorted out afterwards - ie they are already shafted if they lose, or they get into huge debt to win, and then go after Germany for reparations.

Meanwhile the rest of the world is both laughing at and screaming at Germany. I can see Italy sign a secret agreement with the UK to abrogate the Triple Alliance, whilst in Vienna Franz Josef drops dead of shock and whoever is heir in 1901 steps in, and sends secret emissaries to Paris and London, outlining Austria-Hungary's position.

Now, Britain is finishing off the Boers at this time, but people aren't going to be paying much attention to them, there will be less outcry and maybe less Boers at the end!

France can use the war to both push its claims to Alsace-Lorraine and to make moves on Morocco and where-ever the Hell else it wants, knowing that there won't be anything Germany can do. Russia probably does something likewise, tho it is busy expanding in the Far East at this period. Maybe it declares war on the Ottoman Empire? It would be a good time to, with Germany out of the equation, Britain completely embroiled in another war, and France pushing its own agenda.

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
The one problem I have with this is WHY would they bother? Even if we assume that they can get the fleet there, and the transports with it without being sunk by US patrols, the question remains what on Earth do they hope to gain from it?

They hoped to humiliate America. That's it, just to prove their army was the best in the world.
 

Flubber

Banned
They hoped to humiliate America. That's it, just to prove their army was the best in the world.


I've already brought up the old criminal investigation triad of Means, Opportunity, and Motive in the Vinland thread so I'll repeat Grey Wolf's cogent question again: Why heaven's name would Germany do this?

Let's look at the issue with means, opportunity, and motive firmly in mind.

It's arguable that Germany doesn't even have the means necessary to lift 100K troops to North American and keep them supplied. Furthermore, Germany's navy isn't anywhere near superior to the US' navy at the time and may actually be worse in some aspect.

As for opportunity, given the armed camp nature of Europe and Britain's then current war in South Africa, Germany loading 100K troops aboard ocean liners - something which cannot be hidden - is going to raise an awful lot of questions in an awful lot of European capitals. Germany isn't going to be able to sneak an army corps across the Atlantic and, because her explanations of just where that army corps is headed must be believed by the various European powers who will be asking very pointed questions, the US is going to learn about the invasion force before it leaves Germany harbors.

Finally, any motive is wholly lacking. Yes, Germany wanted a piece of the Spanish empire and, yes, Germany engaged in little games of chicken in the hopes it could buffalo or scare the US into concessions. There is no way in hell, however that, absent wholesale changes to the international situation of the time, Germany would ever seriously consider invading the US.

The staff study Conroy wrote his silly book about was just an exercise, just as general staffs the world over "plan" for silly shit like zombie plagues, alien invasions, or attacks on their best friends. The study was also done to placate Wilhelm II, a man whose most recent biography makes a strong case for suffering brain damage during delivery.
 
I've already brought up the old criminal investigation triad of Means, Opportunity, and Motive in the Vinland thread so I'll repeat Grey Wolf's cogent question again: Why heaven's name would Germany do this?

Let's look at the issue with means, opportunity, and motive firmly in mind.

It's arguable that Germany doesn't even have the means necessary to lift 100K troops to North American and keep them supplied. Furthermore, Germany's navy isn't anywhere near superior to the US' navy at the time and may actually be worse in some aspect.

As for opportunity, given the armed camp nature of Europe and Britain's then current war in South Africa, Germany loading 100K troops aboard ocean liners - something which cannot be hidden - is going to raise an awful lot of questions in an awful lot of European capitals. Germany isn't going to be able to sneak an army corps across the Atlantic and, because her explanations of just where that army corps is headed must be believed by the various European powers who will be asking very pointed questions, the US is going to learn about the invasion force before it leaves Germany harbors.

Finally, any motive is wholly lacking. Yes, Germany wanted a piece of the Spanish empire and, yes, Germany engaged in little games of chicken in the hopes it could buffalo or scare the US into concessions. There is no way in hell, however that, absent wholesale changes to the international situation of the time, Germany would ever seriously consider invading the US.

The staff study Conroy wrote his silly book about was just an exercise, just as general staffs the world over "plan" for silly shit like zombie plagues, alien invasions, or attacks on their best friends. The study was also done to placate Wilhelm II, a man whose most recent biography makes a strong case for suffering brain damage during delivery.
Nice:cool:. But now I'm sad because my idea of a German occupation of Cuba seems less likely now:(.
 

iddt3

Donor
On what planet? In this one they might get a few brigades to stagger ashore somewhere in Manhattan, assuming extreme luck. With only a few days of supplies they eventually get butchered in the streets. The few pathetic bands left surrender.
It's a joke about immigration and where all the German immigrents ended up settling (they came through Ellis island and settled mostly in Minnesota and Wisconsin)
 
One thing which maybe worth thinking about is, what are the rest of 'Little Willy's' family doing to stop him being this silly. His grandma would not be best pleased!:eek:
 
If Germany somehow does this, and NOBODY could - not even the UK with Canada as a base..the US is just too big & resupply too tough - France immediately decides this is the time to recover Alsace-Lorraine, and maybe take all of Germany west of the Rhine. The Generalstab has only one hope, giving the French Army enough Rhine wine that they falter in their attack.
 
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