German invasion in Northern Ireland in 1941? Is it possible?

Pangur

Donor
Fair comment on the US State department. As for butterflies, god yeah!!! Its far for impossible that the troubles may never have happen.
On another note. Some where back in this thread some one right made the point that trying to invade NI made a certain sea mammal seem rational andf well considered . We also have the German plan to invade the South (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Green_(Ireland)) as well as attack Iceland - The question you have to asl is how on earth could a military that did so well come up with what were frankly wack job plans? Its not like as if these were paper exercises in peace time
 
The Germans would never invade N.-Ireland. Because it would let them open to a british Invasion of the Friesian Islands.:D
 
There had been semi successful precedent - that must be why Student thought it worth looking at. It's true! Nappy DID invade Ireland, and established a successful bridgehead. Now, it did nothing because, of course, the British attacked in force. But, still, it did get troops to the British Isles.

No doubt, either he or higher command, realized that things had changed, especially in the form of air scouting.

The Nazis were pretty tin-eared and clueless about politics, so it's also possible they would've had the quaint idea that Ireland would still support anybody not British.
 
I just had a thought... Lets say that Germans attack Northern Ireland and the Irish send their army and kicks them out...
Is it possible that De Valera says to the British "Hey we liberated N. Ireland so we get to keep it!" thus annexing N. Ireland to the Isrish State.

Was De Valera capable of something like that?
 
I just had a thought... Lets say that Germans attack Northern Ireland and the Irish send their army and kicks them out...
Is it possible that De Valera says to the British "Hey we liberated N. Ireland so we get to keep it!" thus annexing N. Ireland to the Isrish State.

Was De Valera capable of something like that?

Prob'ly not, honestly. Dev was, if nothing else, a very astute politician. This is the same man who fought on the same side as the IRA in the Civil War, and then dropped any claim the Republic had on the North years later when he became President.
If the Nazies manage to take Northern Ireland, and the South responds by pushing them out, the chances are very good that Ireland lands the territory over to their, now, Allies.
Now, that doesn't mean that the Irish government doesn't play this to their advantage in the future, mind you. They do want the North, after all, and they played the part of good allies. If they can get the US on their side, there isn't anything to say that some sort of diplomatic compromise can't be reached ...
 

Pangur

Donor
Not a hope in hell ! In the case of an invasion of NI the Free State Army would have worked with the British to defeat them not do it all on the own. Of the top of my head it would work some thing like this.


  • Germans invade
  • The IRA get exactly 24 hrs to make there minds up - either stay out of it, assist thre national army or get locked up
  • First thing on the agenda would be to seal the border and move in.
  • At the same time if required the British land troops in south and head north.
Basically it would be a joint operation - so nope,. no holding on to NI.
 
In all honesty, I think the best comparison to a Nazi invasion of Ireland is if the Allies tried to invade Switzerland pre D-Day.
An invasion of Northern Ireland be be the same scenario, only in Austria.
 
I just had a thought... Lets say that Germans attack Northern Ireland and the Irish send their army and kicks them out...
Is it possible that De Valera says to the British "Hey we liberated N. Ireland so we get to keep it!" thus annexing N. Ireland to the Isrish State.

Was De Valera capable of something like that?

I can't see the Irish army defeating the Germans. If it was a small enough force for them to beat, the British would probably have been able to deal with it on their own.
 
As long as someone was at war with the British, they couldn't be all bad in the eyes of Eamon de Valera.

De Valera essentially spent the rest of his natural life in that British prison following the Easter Uprising. His living breathing body may have emerged from that prison, as did his hate, but not his soul, nor any sense of mercy or justice. Be it a thousand years, his memory will never live down the "sincerest condolences". Not with many of the death camps, with all their horrors, having already been revealed to the world in the several previous weeks. There are many many heroes in Irish history. De Valera isn't one of them. He is just an example of how many leaders in history who may be (or may HAVE BEEN) called "great", were in fact true bastards IRL, or up close and personal.

Well, since De Valera has a large share of the credit in establishing & maintaining a democratic Irish state (deeply flawed though it may have been) and also lived & remained in politics for nearly five decades afterwards he is far more deserving of his reputation than some. Such as Collins who died very young. and other former IRA men who turned whole-heartedly to fascism…

Eamon de Valera was always prick, but he wasnt a bad man.
 
I just had a thought... Lets say that Germans attack Northern Ireland and the Irish send their army and kicks them out...
Is it possible that De Valera says to the British "Hey we liberated N. Ireland so we get to keep it!" thus annexing N. Ireland to the Isrish State.

Was De Valera capable of something like that?

I suspect that the British garrison of NI would have defeated the paras well before the Free State Army arrived. ;)
 
Well, since De Valera has a large share of the credit in establishing & maintaining a democratic Irish state (deeply flawed though it may have been) and also lived & remained in politics for nearly five decades afterwards he is far more deserving of his reputation than some. Such as Collins who died very young. and other former IRA men who turned whole-heartedly to fascism…

Eamon de Valera was always prick, but he wasnt a bad man.

I would qualify that to say he wasn't an evil man. But like J. Edgar Hoover, he stayed far too long on the stage and gained far too much power. Thankfully, there's only so much you can do as the leader of Ireland. Yet I shudder to think of the precedents that would have been set had George Washington been a much healthier, much younger man who had no desire to leave office. And people bitched about Thatcher staying too long.

Besides, my use of the term "great" meant that up close and personal many "great" men were real sons-of-bitches. "Greatness" and "Goodness" are all too often mutually exclusive qualities in national leaders. The two exceptions I can think of are Lincoln and Truman in the US. Can you think of any for Ireland and England/the UK? Not being snarky here, I'd really like to know; I'm certain there are such men, its my relative lack of British/Irish Prime Ministerial History...:eek:
 
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