German Europe

you need population!

but how? here's some ideas.

-during the black death the german states do what poland has done and avoid the high death rate

-no 30 years war

that should be good enough to get to 150 million germans, together with the obvious countries which would end up inside thes hypothetical germany (assuming normal imperial expansion towards belgium, luxembourg, netherlands, austria, switzerland, parts of north italy, good portion of eastern europe) you could get to 250 million people which would be more than enough to affirm unopposed leadership on the continent.

then there's colonialism, with more people at home more people go towards overseas regions to populate them with german speaking settlers, maybe parts of north america and south america, that depends on the rulers of the now more populous (= more taxes) german states and if they join the "let's make maps of teh world!" game.

a strong enough german state could even pull a russia on russia, should be good enough for super power status once there is a large need for natural resources.
 
German Unity

Actually the biggest problem here isn't population, it's German unity, or rather how to get the 300+ German states (at the time) together under a single government.
 

trajen777

Banned
I agree with Both --

1. Population -- great ideas --
2. Unity you need perhaps Barbarossa and Otto more German centric less crusade - N Italy centric and then you need Fredrick 1 to not give up the rights he did to the Barons to allow him to focus on Italy -- so have him turn down the crown and have someone replace him who is German centric
3. Have a peaceful religious transition with Luther (what he wanted in the first place) lead a modernization of the Catholic church and no 30 years war.
4. Have Teutonic knights win at Tannenberg (no thunderstorm so better use of cannon) etc
 
Actually the biggest problem here isn't population, it's German unity, or rather how to get the 300+ German states (at the time) together under a single government.

that's also dependant on population - guess which 2 "german states" were the most populous before german unity in real life.

that's right - austria and prussia, the two countries which fought it out over who gets to lead germany.
 
that's also dependant on population - guess which 2 "german states" were the most populous before german unity in real life.

that's right - austria and prussia, the two countries which fought it out over who gets to lead germany.

Probably Austria this time round...Prussia didn't really get rolling until after the War of the Spanish Succession IIRC, and by that time France had already attained the position of most powerful nation in Europe.
 

Deleted member 1487

How to make Germany the dominant power of Europe from the medieval period onward?
Easy: have Otto I focus on the Kingdom of Germany in central Europe rather than getting involved in Italy. With Germany a hereditary monarchy it would easily be the main power broker in Europe from the year 1000 on, which it effectively was IOTL until the HRE got into all its internal issues. With a solid monarchy established it become a larger, more powerful early France that manages Europe around it, while it builds up its population and develops its lands to support them (or vice versa, whatever creates growth). From that position it effectively dominates Europe by 1500 the way France did around it from the 1600s on. Germany dominates Europe until its system becomes too archaic to continue and it gets usurped by someone else or it muddles on with incremental improvements into the Age of Exploration, with Portugal, Spain, and Britain being the big exploratory powers while the Dutch do their own thing as part of Germany; depending on the international situation then Germany could be very well positioned ITTL to dominate the colonial game and have to war against Britain for access. France probably ends up like the HRE did after the 30 years war, fractured and messed with by Germany to keep her weak.

Poland and the East will probably get just as messed up ITTL as IOTL when the Mongols show up. Germany though will be a lot better positioned to take advantage and dominate Poland going forward; we may never see Poland rise to a significant power in the East, meaning Russia might form early given the power vacuum.
 
How about Otto III living long enough to marry and sire a son? Then his son has a son, and that son has a son of his own, in a continuous line of father son succession for 300 years or more? Then have that dynasty develop many cadet branches ready to step into the succession when the main line fails? And do so that until the present day, that dynasty continues to exist and thrive.

That would ensure a hereditary Kingdom of Germany under the Saxon dynasty.
 
The Ottonians wanted to rule as Roman Emperors, not German kings, their main powerbase was on Italy, they would give up Germany if the alternative was giving up Italy. Unless you're talking about Henry II.

You have a better shot on the Staufers or (most likely) the Salians, which isn't really hard, almost everything went wrong to Henry IV.
 
Mary Tudor has a child with Philip II of Spain, securing a long term alliance between the Habsburgs and the English. Faced with this enemy, the Bourbons lose the French Wars of Religion, and France ceases to be the Habsburg's mortal enemy. When the Bohemians revolt, Tilly smashes them, and together he and Wallenstein quickly stamp out the rebellious German princes. Without French support and participation, Ferdinand II achieves his goal of carving out a Catholic, national state in Germany with much smaller loss of life.
 
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