German Empire Fighting On

How long can the German Empire conceivably fight on for in WW1? How much fighting could occur if the Allied armies enter Germany and the Germans refuse to surrender, continuing to fight on but without actually winning the war?

Also, what are the effects on the post war period and the Peace Treaty that will be signed?

POD is 1916.
 
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Unless the navy can break the blockade and start bringing in supplies from the US while simultaenaeously strangling Britain, I can't see them lasting any longer than June 1919.
 
If we don't count the severe internal problems of the Empire, in plain military terms, the situation was not much better:
1. Despite the Brest-Litofsk treaty, the critical situation in the East does not leave a safe environment, while no inflow of rare sources nor industrial nad agricultural products were obtained.
2. In the Western Front the Allies had already proved they could take the initiative, while fielding more forces and advanced equipment.
3. The fall of the Balkan Front created a situation in which the status of the A-H Empire was in peril, no matter how many troops the Germans could sent.

So, yes I'd agree that late Spring or June 1919 is the limit.

Hence, there could be two concequences:

1. The Entente faces huge internal oposition during late Autum 1918, and accepts a ceasefire with better terms for Germany: less land for the Polish, no Rur-Saar production commitment, less compensations, perharps the survival of the A-H monarchy, but still Czechoslovakia emerges and lands to Romania, Poland and Yugoslavia.
2. The Entente maintains its offensive and worst terms of peace: perharps division of the German Empire as well...
 
By November 1918 the German Empire is starving, its allies have surrendered and the Navy has already mutinied with the army on the verge of doing the same. They have no option but to ask for terms. If in an act of crass stupidity they were to attempt to fight on alone I personaly doubt they could prevent a general collapse on the front for more than three weeks. They would also be leaving themselves very vulnerable to the revolution that was brewing.

As for the effect of them continuing to fight on alone on the eventual peace treaty, they could well be facing unconditional surrender followed by an allied occupation force paid for by shipping german industry west. France could even push for the German Empire to be broken up into its constituant kingdoms.
 
Since your pod is 1916 I have to ask the most important question of is the US involved or still neutral?

If the Germans are smart enough to not get them involved then they can last till 1918 at the latest I'd think. However the thing is the Entente can only last til 1917 since prior to American entry, All of the Entente (or at least the French and British as far as I'm aware of) had sold off all their hard assests like their gold reserves in order to scrap together the necessary funds needed to stay in the war. The Germans however had not and still have enough hard assets to prop up their currency.

By 1917, the British and French have nothing propping up their banks and other financial institutions aside from American loans, which prior to the Zimmerman note, President Wilson was going to finally cut off as he was growing worried that if the war dragged on further then all the participants would collapse and leave Europe ripe for Communist takeover. Whats more, despite his Anglophilia, Wilson was growing increasingly frustrated and exasperated by The British and French refusal to even bother negotiating a peace back when the Germans offered in 1916. To add to this, he was also of the opinion that the western Entente, was not reliable and would be unable to pay off whatever loans the US did give them.

And most importantly, though I'll admit that I've only heard this so take this part with a grain of salt, but I've heard how Wilson had even planned to send the USN to end the British blockade of Germany and central Europe so the US could trade there again. And to add to this, the British had tied their own banking institutions to the French ones in a effort to help prop them up when they had sold off all their hard assets.

So if Wilson actually does go ahead with all this then that's the end for the Entente straight up. However if Wilson doesn't go through with all that but still keeps the US neutral and goes ahead with his planned refusal to send any more loans then I'd estimate the Entente will last not much longer anyway.

Now if the US does join as per OTL, then I'd imagine the Germans will only last perhaps til 1919 at the absolute latest if they decide to keep on fighting even after it's obvious they can't win. If that happens then you could probably expect the French to get their rhine border. At least for a short while before reality sets in.
 

Razgriz 2K9

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By November 1918 the German Empire is starving, its allies have surrendered and the Navy has already mutinied with the army on the verge of doing the same. They have no option but to ask for terms. If in an act of crass stupidity they were to attempt to fight on alone I personally doubt they could prevent a general collapse on the front for more than three weeks. They would also be leaving themselves very vulnerable to the revolution that was brewing.

As for the effect of them continuing to fight on alone on the eventual peace treaty, they could well be facing unconditional surrender followed by an allied occupation force paid for by shipping German industry west. France could even push for the German Empire to be broken up into its constituent kingdoms.

^This, though I'm actually interested in how France would divide the German Empire, since I doubt they'd want to restore Germany to its German Confederation territories...
 
How long can the German Empire conceivably fight on for in WW1? How much fighting could occur if the Allied armies enter Germany and the Germans refuse to surrender, continuing to fight on but without actually winning the war?

Also, what are the effects on the post war period and the Peace Treaty that will be signed?

POD is 1916.

With the entente occupiying Germany there would be no stab in the back myth for the various right wing groups to exploit.
 
Could become a big clusterfuck. Imagine: Revolution in parts of Germany, some of them democratic, some of them communist, than the Reichswehr and the old Elite and the Entente armies between.
 
Could become a big clusterfuck. Imagine: Revolution in parts of Germany, some of them democratic, some of them communist, than the Reichswehr and the old Elite and the Entente armies between.

The example you're looking at here is the Russian civil War and International Intervention. The big difference between them is that with all that chaos so close to home the western powers arn't going to throw in the towel.
 
With no USA entry, the USA is still sending relief food shipments to Belgium and the adjacent neutrals can transship USA goods so there is some big blockade holes still. Here the Germany could use their merchant submarines to import the most strategic of supplies: rubber, nickel and copper (in limited quanities). I can see Germany lasting through the summer of 1919, probably long enough for some compromise peace with the Allies who are having to limit aramaments production themselves due to extra financial problems. As far as what the peace might look like, Germany isn't getting her colonies back and might be forced to give up Metz but would keep vast gains in the East.

With USA entry blockade issues and shortage of rubber for gas masks and shortages of strategic metals may shut down the German war effort anyway by the end of 1918/early 1919.
 
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