German Brazil?

Is there any way that the holy Roman empire could have colonised Brazil or any part of the Americas? If so what effects would this have on global geo politics.
 
Sounds like a lot of work, getting from Germany to Brazil. North America or the Caribbean are far more plausible.

Not to mention they better be best friends with the English, or they get 100% blocked from their colony every time a war starts. Not to mention the French and the Spanish.

Another problem is that Brazil is a tropical country, and Germans are used to cold climate and a weak, feeble sun of the northern regions. They're gonna fry like lobsters unless they get some race-mixing going with the natives. Their plant cultures are also too wildly different, and unlike the Portuguese they lack the contact with tropical regions to easily bring tropical cultures to Brazil - Brazil is full of cultures from other tropical parts of the world.

Also, Germany has no naval tradition, whereas the Portuguese Tradition IS Naval Tradition.

A HRE colonial effort from Italy is far more likely, but it would be pretty much a Italian Colonization. Also, vulnerable to Spain or Portugal just blocking the Gibraltar Strait and saying "No U" with their mega-fleets.
 
No. Portuguese colonization of Brazil was inevitable after they established their Asian empire. The sea routes to India just took European ships way too close to the Brazilian shore.
 
No, but I'm sure a German Canada could've happened. Maybe some German North Sea/Baltic trading city gets involved with the fur trade and colonizes Quebec before 1603 (when Quebec City was founded by the French).
 
Have the Dutch retain control over brazil. After that, the Dutch republic gets eaten by a german power or a german unification movement. The colonies follow the mainland, and (at least the northern coast) is german.
 
Sounds like a lot of work, getting from Germany to Brazil. North America or the Caribbean are far more plausible.

Not to mention they better be best friends with the English, or they get 100% blocked from their colony every time a war starts. Not to mention the French and the Spanish.

Another problem is that Brazil is a tropical country, and Germans are used to cold climate and a weak, feeble sun of the northern regions. They're gonna fry like lobsters unless they get some race-mixing going with the natives. Their plant cultures are also too wildly different, and unlike the Portuguese they lack the contact with tropical regions to easily bring tropical cultures to Brazil - Brazil is full of cultures from other tropical parts of the world.

Also, Germany has no naval tradition, whereas the Portuguese Tradition IS Naval Tradition.

A HRE colonial effort from Italy is far more likely, but it would be pretty much a Italian Colonization. Also, vulnerable to Spain or Portugal just blocking the Gibraltar Strait and saying "No U" with their mega-fleets.

Naval tradition? Consider the Hansa and North Germany. Old Saxony of the 11th and 12th century could develop a solid naval tradition, just as the Dutch did centuries later. It's possible that Didrik Pining and Hans Pothorst--German privateers--were among those who found their way to the New World before Columbus.

The Germans could try at the Brazilian Northeast (the historic center of wealth), but the other parts of Brazil like Sao Paulo and Minas Gerais might be more profitable in the long run. Especially the Brazilian South with its highland climate, although that would be more linked to the La Plata Region. South Brazil is good for production of sugar, tobacco, yerba mate, and other useful goods.

Race-mixing is inevitable. There will be more men than women, and the locals will be forced to provide their women (this will be a source of conflict, and one which it's likely the Europeans will win). And before long, African slaves--they will farm sugar and other crops--will have their women "taken" by the ruling class. The interior will provide a lot of slaves, and we may have German bandeirantes active in the area.

No. Portuguese colonization of Brazil was inevitable after they established their Asian empire. The sea routes to India just took European ships way too close to the Brazilian shore.

Any POD which results in a German power which can colonise to begin with would be well before Portugal started their expeditions. And while it's definitely more likely for a German power to focus on the Caribbean (sugar islands) or North America (fur trade, gold in Georgia) due to geography, Germans in Brazil aren't totally impossible either.

Germany had a large population which often settled in Eastern Europe. If Eastern Europe is less amenable to Germans, or incentives to settle the New World are greater, then a lot Germans will likely head for the New World.

I like the idea of a German colony in the Platine region, which has ample opportunities for farming plus trade. It has a good climate like New England or the Mid-Atlantic, so if you send whole families over you'll have a natural rate of increase for your colonists. If they can deal with the local American Indians, then they'll be well off. I think the best way to get Germans to colonise Brazil would be if the motherland develops a taste for yerba mate. Like tea or coffee, it's caffeinated, and IMO it's far tastier than any tea or coffee, and it just so happens that Southern Brazil is a key area for yerba mate plantations. The climate in the highlands of that region are likewise good for European settlement, and also good for planting mate.
 
The southern Brazilian states of Parana, Santa Caterina, and Rio Grande do Sul had a massive German emigrant population at the end of the 19th Century; estimated at between 200,000 and 500,000. It was the largest immigrant group in southern Brazil, and the largest German settlement in Latin America. European Germans had high hopes of closer ties with this region, and the US was seriously worried about German intentions.
 
Naval tradition? Consider the Hansa and North Germany. Old Saxony of the 11th and 12th century tcould develop a solid naval tradition, just as the Dutch did centuries later. It's possible that Didrik Pining and Hans Pothorst--German privateers--were among those who found their way to the New World before Columbus.

The Hansa and North Germany have a naval, not Maritime Tradition. Sailing a little inland sea like the Baltic, and the North Sea, is not the same thing as sailing the Atlantic. Need a different type of boat, for starters. Brown Sea is not Blue Sea.

Meanwhile, the Portuguese have a long and honoured naval tradition. The region that birthed Portugal (Portus Calle) was already a commercial port in roman times. The Portuguese have a long and ancient tradition of fishing, a life by the sea, etc. Portugal is the place between the Mediterranean world and the northern seas. You can't even write Portucal without Port. There's a reason the Portuguese were always number one at the naval exploration thing.

The Germans could try at the Brazilian Northeast (the historic center of wealth), but the other parts of Brazil like Sao Paulo and Minas Gerais might be more profitable in the long run. Especially the Brazilian South with its highland climate, although that would be more linked to the La Plata Region. South Brazil is good for production of sugar, tobacco, yerba mate, and other useful goods.

Looking at the routes, Northeast seems more likely due to the trade winds. They could go to the North too, but not much for them there... yet.

The Dutch episode was a historical anomaly that only happened because the Portuguese were on a low turn since Alcacer Quibir, especially becoming part of the Habsburg Empire. Also, the Dutch do have a better naval tradition than Hansa and North Germany.
 
Sounds like a lot of work, getting from Germany to Brazil. North America or the Caribbean are far more plausible.

Not to mention they better be best friends with the English, or they get 100% blocked from their colony every time a war starts. Not to mention the French and the Spanish.

England isn’t that great of a naval power until the XVIII century. Prior to then the Dutch are a bigger concern.

The big advantage to having a German colony in Brazil is that neither of those two has a big interest there (the Dutch invaded Brazil OTL but it was in the context of their war of independence; they probably don’t do the same here). If they try to colonize North America or the Caribbean they face a greater risk of conflict with the maritime powers.
 
Is there any way that the holy Roman empire could have colonised Brazil or any part of the Americas? If so what effects would this have on global geo politics.

Emperor Charles V has a third heir, who receives the Burgundian lands (basically, the Netherlands, Belgium, and associated territory).

When the Reformation hits there, the Netherlands Habsburgs go Protestant with their subjects.

This eventually leads to a Protestant HRE with its capital in the Netherlands, and a powerful maritime presence. (At least as great as the OTL Dutch Republic, obvlously, and with Antwerp, Bremen, and Hamburg joining in, much greater.) The Empire can and does colonize large parts of the New World, including Brazil.
 
My best idea for HRE colonization is that the Emperor does it - which means Austria. Lets also assume its a settler colony somewhere in the Americas. However the proclamation states that its done in the name of the emperor (I think this pretty likely) - but its basically an austrian run thing. Until the point they got into some trouble with either protestants there or protestant wanting to migrate there - former works better. End result is that after one of the religious wars in the european HRE its stipulated that protestant haves rights/can go there which makes it a more HRE thing. Than comes 1740 and a non Habsburg emperor - which will decide if it will be a HRE or a Habsburg colony.
 
Emperor Charles V has a third heir, who receives the Burgundian lands (basically, the Netherlands, Belgium, and associated territory).

When the Reformation hits there, the Netherlands Habsburgs go Protestant with their subjects.

This eventually leads to a Protestant HRE with its capital in the Netherlands, and a powerful maritime presence. (At least as great as the OTL Dutch Republic, obvlously, and with Antwerp, Bremen, and Hamburg joining in, much greater.) The Empire can and does colonize large parts of the New World, including Brazil.
I don't get it, why the need of a third heir? Why not have the Netherlands and Austria go to one Hapsburg and Spain and Italy to the other? This way you can have a more dominant state, plus Austria was itself participant in the reformation until the kings reasserted catholicism.
 
My best idea for HRE colonization is that the Emperor does it - which means Austria. Lets also assume its a settler colony somewhere in the Americas. However the proclamation states that its done in the name of the emperor (I think this pretty likely) - but its basically an austrian run thing. Until the point they got into some trouble with either protestants there or protestant wanting to migrate there - former works better. End result is that after one of the religious wars in the european HRE its stipulated that protestant haves rights/can go there which makes it a more HRE thing. Than comes 1740 and a non Habsburg emperor - which will decide if it will be a HRE or a Habsburg colony.

It wouldn't just be Protestants. The Holy Roman Empire sent a ton of German settlers all over Central and Eastern Europe into the 19th century. If the Volga Germans willingly settled harsh lands at risk from raids from nomads, then settling a harsh frontier like Brazil is feasible.

One problem is the low rate of increase in tropical climate due to disease, but you just need to have them settle where the OTL Germans settled in Brazil--the Southeast and South of Brazil, where the more temperate climate would be more tolerable for German settlers.
 
It wouldn't just be Protestants. The Holy Roman Empire sent a ton of German settlers all over Central and Eastern Europe into the 19th century. If the Volga Germans willingly settled harsh lands at risk from raids from nomads, then settling a harsh frontier like Brazil is feasible.

One problem is the low rate of increase in tropical climate due to disease, but you just need to have them settle where the OTL Germans settled in Brazil--the Southeast and South of Brazil, where the more temperate climate would be more tolerable for German settlers.

Sorry I should have clarified: A colony run by Austria would be mainly catholic - Austria would ensure that. To wrest some control of Austria I use the protestants.
 
I don't get it, why the need of a third heir? Why not have the Netherlands and Austria go to one Hapsburg and Spain and Italy to the other? This way you can have a more dominant state, plus Austria was itself participant in the reformation until the kings reasserted catholicism.
To make sure that this branch of the Habsburgs goes Protestant and settles in the Netherlands. With the German Habsburgs staying based in Austria, and tied to the Church as Emperors, it's more likely that the Netherlands just break away, rather than draw the Habsburgs in Austria into Reforming.

My idea was that the Empire would split, with a Catholic south and Protestant north. I'm not sure how to reach a peace with both polities claiming the title of HRE, though.

Or maybe a sort of truce like OTL, where the Emperors were Catholic, but many individual princes were Protestant, but reversed.

Note that if Bohemia stays Protestant, four of the seven Electorates are Protestant.
 
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To make sure that this branch of the Habsburgs goes Protestant and settles in the Netherlands. With the German Habsburgs staying based in Austria, and tied to the Church as Emperors, it's more likely that the Netherlands just break away, rather than draw the Habsburgs in Austria into Reforming.

My idea was that the Empire would split, with a Catholic south and Protestant north. I'm not sure how reach a peace with both polities claiming the title of HRE, though.

Or maybe a sort of truce like OTL, where the Emperors were Catholic, but many individual princes were Protestant, but reversed.

Note that if Bohemia stays Protestant, flour of the seven Electorates are Protestant.
The South was Protestant as well in many areas, I think there is no particular reason for the HREmperor to be Catholic, afterall it was during this very time that the emperor stopped being crowned by the Pope and losing connection to Italy, if the Hapsburg are split with Italy and Spain on one side and Austria and Netherlands on the other, you could just have a religiously ambiguous HRE with the economic center in the Netherlands.

There was 1 TL in which this very thing happened, although differently, the HRE conquered Mexico that way.
 
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