German "Bolshevik" and Russia "Nazi" by 1933

WI the two major dictatorial powers of WW2 took opposite paths.

I believe that both of these things are possible. (I have to have a question mark in my mind about how long a Bolshevik Germany would be tolerated by neighbours- but then again there was not much interest in starting a war in the Democracies)

Would there have still been something like WW2?

Could Japan and Russia have agreed a carve up of China?
 
A Russian Nazi's are not too easy, because one of the major columes of Nazism is anti-Slavism. So...is this worlds Nazis anti-German or just anti-Semitic and anti-Bolshevik.

I would think that WW2 (which still seems likely to happen) is going to be Russia invading Europe, with a German dominated Eastern Europe after Allied victory.

Could Japan and Russia have agreed a carve up of China?

I would think not. I am guessing that TTL's Nazism is still largely based on revenge of previous defeats, so I would think a Second Russo-Japanese War a much more likely event.
 
A Russian Nazi's are not too easy, because one of the major columes of Nazism is anti-Slavism. So...is this worlds Nazis anti-German or just anti-Semitic and anti-Bolshevik.


I picture a Russian "Nazi" movement as being more linked to the Church than German Nazis in OTL. I picture them being somewhat pan slavist and obviously anti Bolshevik, probably also anti gay and anti Roma (Gypsy)
 
Originally posted by Derek Jackson
I picture a Russian "Nazi" movement as being more linked to the Church than German Nazis in OTL. I picture them being somewhat pan slavist and obviously anti Bolshevik, probably also anti gay and anti Roma (Gypsy)

Well, Russian "Nazism" could be some fascist version of panslavism. You still have uebermenschen, only ITTL they are Slavs. Orthodox Church would pass nicely, as "truly Slavic" version of Christianity. And of course Nazi-Russia's mission is to gather all Slavic nations under the rule of the tsar (or any leader with some other title), to clean "Holy Russia" of perverts, Gypsies, Jews and non-Slavs, have revenge on the West for exploiting and persecuting Slavs for so long; and last but not least, to protect true Christianity from Catholic (i.e. western) disease, from barbaric islam and Asiatic paganism.
I think some ultranationalistic parties in Russia had similar "ideals". So, some ultranationalistic military genius wins Russian Civil War. He openly declares that newly independent countries (Baltic States, Finland, Poland) shall come back to Russian Empire. Panslavism becomes state ideology, and instead of SS we have Black Sotnyas.
As far as Bolshevik Germany goes, that is a little harder. Perhaps so:
German communist rebelions in 1918 are easily defeated, but it was only a prelude. With the fall of Russian Revolution German communist decise to go underground, reorganize and prepare for next opportunity. Great Depression hits Europe harder (no idea why, I do not know much about economy) and when communists take over in Germany, nobody is particularly eager to intervene, too busy with internal problems (e.g. communist revol in France?). Also, communist might take over in Germany gradually, first as a part of some leftist goverment, then slowly eliminating socialists and socialdemocrats.
 
A Russian Nazi's are not too easy, because one of the major columes of Nazism is anti-Slavism.

Maybe the anti-Slavish program is changed by an anti-Muslim one. Turks could be the equivalent of Polish in that TL, and the war could start after a Turkish refusal to give up Constantinople. The Brits and the French had promised the straits to Russia during the Great War, but after 20 years they could have "forget" it.

Crimean War, Part II: Now with tanks and airplanes!
 
Iron Guard + Pan-Slavism = Russonazis.

There could be some nineteenth century publication as the POD, or foundation of the Russian fascist ideology, something like
a pseudohistory claiming the german race was responsible for
the decline of human civilization, fall of rome, the first two divisions of christianity, attempting to stunt eastern growth in the fourth crusade,
and maybe then blame the asians for the mongol invasions and the plague. basically saying; our enemies are the source of all evil. Something
like a russian version of The Myth of the Twentieth Century.
Could gain popularity after, or during, WW1, and then after the german communists come to power portray communism as a german-asiatic
conspiracy against the slavs.The issue of the kievan rus' being founded by scandinavians could be smoothed over by saying the rulers had
become russified, but the "inherent problems of german blood" remained, explaining away the series of incompetent Tsars and aristocrats.

For getting such a government in power, perhaps larger scale aristocratic deaths by assassination earlier on make cooperating with the
kerensky government less of an issue for the royalists and right wingers, retaliatory assassinations against the Bolsheviks result in
disorganisation and confusion on their part, Lenin killed 1919. Following the white victory in the civil war fascist groups launch several
putsch attempts against the liberal democratic government, financed by the landowners and the wealthy [who are dissatisfied with the
kerensky government's handling of former revolutionaries and economic policies], and eventually overthow the republic's government.
Then, pogroms, re-establishing order, and revanchism. Given Metaxas's fascist leanings , if there was ever an invasion of Turkey
Greece might join in to get back Smyrna.

During this time, out of the former empire Poland [occupying lithuania], Ukraine, and Finland
have broken away, and Japan occupies outer manchuria and northern sakhalin.
Russia controls a large slice of Belarussia, Latvia, estonia, the caucasus and central asia. Poland and Ukraine have an alliance, although they do not get along very well due to disputes about poland's eastern border.

Large numbers of former bolsheviks flee russia to germany, and aid in party organisation.
A young man named hitler died in a gas attack in 1918, so the right doesn't have a skilled orator and leader to rally around.
As word seeps in of the atrocities commited by the fascist russian government against political rivals and volga germans,
fascism is not looking quite as good as it did OTL. With the right weak and divided, a Communist government comes to power via
a putsch in 1928, or, if you think its plausible, an election. While initially unstable and weak, by 1930 the working-class populace sees the
government in a much better light as the rest of the world is mired in the great depression. The military is contemplating a pact with russia to divide poland and ukraine between them, with lithuania and ukraine going to russia and the remainder of poland to the German Socialist Republic [which may eventually become the Central European Federation].

Opinions?
 
Top