German battleship in japan

All four Brandenburg-class ships were in the pacific during the Boxer rebellion, Kaiser and König Albert also paid a visit to Chile pre WW1.

In peactime coalburning ships could make use of all sorts of replenishment sources, like most ports at the time, as well as other ships, since transfer of coal is done by hand, not by hoses and pumps, the later being a must with oil fired ships. This made older coalburners more flexible in terms of getting them around when wished for, where oil fired ships were handicapped by the supply and logistics. Gunboat diplomacy mainly is coupled to the era of coalburning ships, as later, when the shift was made to oil fired vessels, the problems of fueling became appearent.

In a military use, coal had one major defect, which is the loss of power, the longer a coalburner is in full action, as fatigue of the stokers will play in then, resulting in less boilerpower the longer the ship has to steam at full power. Oil is more user friendly in this case, despite the logistical issues. This is why warships started to shift from coal to oil first, followed by merchant vessels.
 
In peactime coalburning ships could make use of all sorts of replenishment sources, like most ports at the time, as well as other ships, since transfer of coal is done by hand, not by hoses and pumps, the later being a must with oil fired ships. This made older coalburners more flexible in terms of getting them around when wished for, where oil fired ships were handicapped by the supply and logistics. Gunboat diplomacy mainly is coupled to the era of coalburning ships, as later, when the shift was made to oil fired vessels, the problems of fueling became appearent.

In a military use, coal had one major defect, which is the loss of power, the longer a coalburner is in full action, as fatigue of the stokers will play in then, resulting in less boilerpower the longer the ship has to steam at full power. Oil is more user friendly in this case, despite the logistical issues. This is why warships started to shift from coal to oil first, followed by merchant vessels.


Coaling is a hard and dirty work, oil pumping is faster, easier and cleaner. All crew not only stokers had to aid in coaling so after that work the ship is out of work for some hours while crew rests.
 
The problem for the presented scenario is that there were so few German 'Battleships' (Scharnhorst, Gneisnau, Bismarck, Tirpitz, Deutschland, Scheer, Graf Spee) That the British went to extrodinary efforts to track them and hunt them down. The only chance would be to do it at the beginning of the war. After that any major warship leaving Germany would be tracked and hunted down. Travelling the length of the Atlantic would be very difficult with the might of the Royal Navy looking for you. Yes it is feasable but only if you avoid all contact. That in itself would raise red flags and cause more attention to the attempt.
 
The Germans had few enough ships, why on earth would they give up a major part of their entire surface fleet for a 'goodwill' visit in the middle of the war? And if it is supposedly for more than 'goodwill', what can it do in Japan that it couldn't do at home? Even if logistic problems (which, as pointed out, are nasty) didn't prevent more.

If, somehow, they got one to Japan, they'd not get it back until after the war was over - assuming it survived both the trip and the war.

I just can't imagine the Nazis going for this.
 
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In a military use, coal had one major defect, which is the loss of power, the longer a coalburner is in full action, as fatigue of the stokers will play in then, resulting in less boilerpower the longer the ship has to steam at full power. Oil is more user friendly in this case, despite the logistical issues. This is why warships started to shift from coal to oil first, followed by merchant vessels.
Odd. Later steam locomotives had the coal fed by augers into the furnace. Why couldn't coal fired naval ships do the same?

Off topic, I know.
 
Odd. Later steam locomotives had the coal fed by augers into the furnace. Why couldn't coal fired naval ships do the same?

Off topic, I know.

They did. Even with that its still hard labor. Tending the 1950s technology augers we used on the farms when I was young was still serious work. And dangerous. Augers and chute or conveyor type elevators were good places to lose fingers or your hand. Getting in a hurry when tired or exhausted with that sort of equipment even occasionally cost a farm hand his life.
 

Deleted member 94680

It may have been possible in the early part of the war (pre-Barbarossa) with the help of Russia.
Send the ship north around the Russian coast, refuelling as necessary.

Would the Russians be happy with sending more heavy units to the IJN? I can't see Stalin and Co. being happy with beefing up the IJN in any way shape or form, what technology would the KMS BB take with it?
 
Only way I can see a German capital ship getting to the Pacific post Sept 39 is if the Germans sell one to the neutral Japanese. Would the Royal Navy have the right to attack a Japanese flagged vessel before Dec 41 even if it had German crew on board.
 
Only way I can see a German capital ship getting to the Pacific post Sept 39 is if the Germans sell one to the neutral Japanese. Would the Royal Navy have the right to attack a Japanese flagged vessel before Dec 41 even if it had German crew on board.
They've blockaded Germany; at that point they can stop any neutral shipping to and from Germany (and later, German-occupied territories). That holds true for warships just as much as for merchant vessels.

Not that Hitler is ever going to agree to sell one of his handful of battleships, nor are the Japanese (who are building the Yamato-class and have plenty of perfectly fine battleships of their own) going to want a technologically-inferior German battleship that uses incompatible parts.
 

Mrstrategy

Banned
Would the British attack the german ship that they sold to japan of its crewed by Japanese crew with Japanese flag
 
Only way I can see a German capital ship getting to the Pacific post Sept 39 is if the Germans sell one to the neutral Japanese. Would the Royal Navy have the right to attack a Japanese flagged vessel before Dec 41 even if it had German crew on board.

Would they have the right? Maybe not. Would they anyways? Possibly. I'm sure they could come up with some excuse.
 
They've blockaded Germany; at that point they can stop any neutral shipping to and from Germany (and later, German-occupied territories). That holds true for warships just as much as for merchant vessels.

I know neutral Merchant shipping could be stopped to check that no war material was being carried to an enemy port. Stopping a neutral warship heading away from an enemy port I wouldnt like to be the captain of the RN ship who had to do the stopping isnt that a declaration of war.
 
The largest that I know of were a pair of armored cruisers the Scharnhorst and Gneisenau of World War One fame. They beat the Brandenburg class by a couple of thousand tons and firepower I believe they would be superior to the Brandenburg class Battleships. As for if the a battleship broke out to attack the North Atlantic Convoy routes and was forced to move to the southern Atlantic and then into Pacific Ocean to avoid being destroyed by the Royal Navy. It would be real reach but it would make for an interesting alternate history have the Kriegsmarine operating a battleship in the Pacific with the Japanese navy
 
I am no great expert on either German or Japanese battleships but from the resources i have at my disposal. The Scharnhorst class has the speed of the Kongo Class but less firepower and the range is miserable for the Pacific. The Deutschland class has the range, speed is adequate but firepower is not there, I included the class more out of charity than reality. The Bismark class is the one class that could keep up with the Kongo class battleships speed wise which is important since they are the workhorse battleships of the Japanese Navy. The firepower is roughly the same. But the range also lets them down, the Kongo class has a range of 10000 NM at 18 knots to the Bismark's range of 8500 nm 19 knots. But like all German warships were designed to operate in the Atlantic not the Pacific.
 
Would the British attack the german ship that they sold to japan of its crewed by Japanese crew with Japanese flag

They'd probably give three cheers and offer navigation advice & weather reports. Anything that gets to one less German BB in 1939/40 is in British view a good thing. Even taking the long view & the possibility of war with Japan later moving a ship that is dangerous in German hands to Japan, who can't make efficient use of it is a net gain for Britain. The serious problem of short fuel for Pacific ops, and the mega show stopping problem of different details of technology makes about any German BB, or cruiser of 1939 a near liability for the Japanese
 
I know neutral Merchant shipping could be stopped to check that no war material was being carried to an enemy port. Stopping a neutral warship heading away from an enemy port I wouldnt like to be the captain of the RN ship who had to do the stopping isnt that a declaration of war.
It would be a diplomatic decision as to whether or not to do it, but legally they certainly could (especially as it likely wouldn't have been commissioned as a Japanese ship until it arrived in Japan. On the other hand, as noted, the trade would never actually happen (as neither Japan nor Germany would have any interest in such a deal), but if for some unknown reason it did, and for some unknown reason the UK wanted to stop it, they certainly could cite legal precedent.
 
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