German battlecruiser in New York, August, 1914--oops!

The SMS Moltke visited the USA in 1912, and that got me thinking about an interesting dilema. Suppose one of the Kaiser's Large Cruisers was visiting the USA in 1914--I'll assume it's Moltke. With the possibility of war, she's ordered homoe--or would be, except that a collision means she's being repaired in a New York drydock. Repiars are completed just as war is declared--but lurking just off of New York are 2 British 13.5" gunned battlecruisers, well known by everyone on both sides to be vastly superior, even individually, to the German ship. (The perception of the people involved are what will determine what axctions get taken, regardless of the actual explosiveness of the British ships) Trying to sail home would be suicide, pure and simple. Just to ensure that they can't escape, a few pre-dreadnoughts show up. Once there, the Cats can rotate to a British port, leaving one Cat and a pair of predreadnoughts available at all times.

The German has to leave or be interned--what does he do? Or does the Kaiser try to sell the ship to the Americans before the laws require internment? Or what other options are there? With the build-up to war, the Germans have had time to work out contingency plans depending on the ship's condition. What diplomatic efforts can be taken by the various parties>

Here's the relevant treaty:
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hague13.asp
 
Germanywank!

The German BC decides to go down fighting, to show to the US and the world German courage and determination. As the fighting starts, the British Cat takes the lead over the pre-dreadnoughts. The German BC fires its forward guns at absolute maximum range. The British BC takes one hit and promptly blows up. The two British pre-dreadnoughts panic and turn into each others' course, with one ship spearing the other amidships, leaving both locked together and in a sinking condition. The German BC makes for home at flank speed as the surviving crews of the British ships are rescued by the US Coast Guard. The German BC crew is greeted by the Kaiser as heroes of the fatherland. The British captain of one of the pre-dreadnoughts (the other was killed in the collision) is court-martialed by the Admiralty. When he explains to his judges that he is the younger brother of the Earl of Chichister, all charges are immediately dropped. When a young British captain suggests reviewing the RN's BC designs for possible flaws, he is drummed out of the RN on suspicion of insanity.
 

NothingNow

Banned
The German BC decides to go down fighting, to show to the US and the world German courage and determination. As the fighting starts, the British Cat takes the lead over the pre-dreadnoughts. The German BC fires its forward guns at absolute maximum range. The British BC takes one hit and promptly blows up. The two British pre-dreadnoughts panic and turn into each others' course, with one ship spearing the other amidships, leaving both locked together and in a sinking condition. The German BC makes for home at flank speed as the surviving crews of the British ships are rescued by the US Coast Guard. The German BC crew is greeted by the Kaiser as heroes of the fatherland. The British captain of one of the pre-dreadnoughts (the other was killed in the collision) is court-martialed by the Admiralty. When he explains to his judges that he is the younger brother of the Earl of Chichister, all charges are immediately dropped. When a young British captain suggests reviewing the RN's BC designs for possible flaws, he is drummed out of the RN on suspicion of insanity.
:):eek::D Nice. Really Nice.
 
Dispite the fact the SMS Moltke had lesser guns, it still would have been the better ship, opposed to the 13.5 inch Battlecruisers of the Brittish and certainly outmatched any prederadnought. The German ship was slightly slower compared to the British battlecruisers, but more ballanced in design with lots more protection.

The main armament of the SMS Moltke could defeat the British ships, as did the British 13.5 shell to the German one. Point was who scored the first hits, which most likely would be the Germans, as the SMS Moltke was a more stable gunneryplatform and had more superior firecontrollequipment in 1914. (Besides a more extensive training for the gunnerycrews, compared to the British)

In battle, the only thing needed was to slow down the British battlecruisers, so SMS moltke could run for home, wihtout the possibility of the British to run her down. Sinking an opponent was not needed and not a missionorder. Just bringing in the ship back save and sound was more important.
 
If someone in Germany's propaganda department is smart, they'll try to milk this for all its worth in America about the Entente bullies ganging up on "brave lil' Germany" (and most people from that time will throw a look at the world map and agree that, yeah, Germany is kinda small compared to colossal Russia or the vast French or British colonial empires), and hand the cruiser captain in New York orders to set sail, but not fire upon the British unless fired upon first, leaving the Brits to start a fight in the US' backyard.

- Kelenas
 
Thoughts

Usertron2020, that is FUNNY! The makers of "The Keystone Cops" turn to war stories?

HMS Warspite, the Moltker might be able to beat Princess Royal, but with other ships in support, it's difficult. More important, the Germans don't know how potentially explosive the British are--and the predreadnoughts are solid, One hit could doom Moltke to being intercepted, or returning to New York. Battle would be considred a loosing proposition, although might still be the right choice.

Kelanas, this gives German and British propaganda marvelous opportunites--and chances for major screw-ups also. These scenarios are interesting...
 
How far did national waters extend in 1914? Was it 20 miles? And would the British be dumb enough or unlucky enough to attack the German ship in American waters?

Even worse, what if some wealthy German-Americans decided to escort the Moltke out of New York Harbor and got caught in the cross-fire? American civilian casualties at this point in the war could have disastrous consequences for the Allied powers further down the road.

Benjamin
 
How far did national waters extend in 1914? Was it 20 miles? And would the British be dumb enough or unlucky enough to attack the German ship in American waters?

Even worse, what if some wealthy German-Americans decided to escort the Moltke out of New York Harbor and got caught in the cross-fire? American civilian casualties at this point in the war could have disastrous consequences for the Allied powers further down the road.

Benjamin


Officially the territorial waters were only a 3 mile zone out of shore before 1971. Only after this, a 12 mile territorial zone was agreed upon. Some nations claimed more, both before and after, but this was not recognized normally. (Like Lybia claimed the entire Gulf of Sidra to be hers in the 1980's, often disputed with the US 6th Fleet.)
 
Officially the territorial waters were only a 3 mile zone out of shore before 1971. Only after this, a 12 mile territorial zone was agreed upon. Some nations claimed more, both before and after, but this was not recognized normally. (Like Lybia claimed the entire Gulf of Sidra to be hers in the 1980's, often disputed with the US 6th Fleet.)

Thanks.

So how close in would the British be willing to wait? And would the US send ships to keep an eye on the Brits? It's easy to imagine the German ship going out engaging in a short exchange, getting damaged and then turning back towards New York. If this occurs its possible that the British, now worked up and smelling blood, might charge in to finish her off. Unfortunately, America is not some small South American nation that can be largely ignored. If the Germans are smart or the British foolhardy this will very quickly become a dangerous international incident, and unlike WWII many Americans don't see the Germans as the "bad guys" of this conflict.

Benjamin
 
The US interns the ship, as it did an estimated two million tons of CP shipping in 1914.

Well Grimm, that's a big barrel of Not Fun.:p

If the British initiated hostile action in or very near American Waters then this would almost certainly arouse American tempers and bring back historical animosities regarding America's maritime sovereignty. While, internment is the most plausible outcome it is more interesting for the sake of AH to imagine that the Moltke makes an attempt to escape and is confronted by the British.

Benjamin
 
I can certainly see how the Germans could screw this up; being the ones to initiate battle and fire the first shot, for example, but I can't see how the British could turn this into a great opportunity unless it is by exploiting a German screw-up. Could you give me an example perhaps, please?

Regarding territorial waters; would the average American really care that much if the battle takes place three or thirty miles of their coast? Or would they simply consider it to be "in their front-(or back-)yard, regardless of what the law says?

- Kelenas
 
benjamin, OK, how's this?:)

The Germans out do their normal level of PR fiasco by spending half the battle shelling the Statue of Liberty, apparently on the assumption that tourists are spotting for the British gunners.

However, American hostility is not only reduced but directed against the British when the British commander invites scores of top American dignitaries to a celebratory dinner after the battle where many classic examples of British 'cuisine' are served. Only through heroic efforts are medical professionals able to save most of the guests...:D
 
benjamin, OK, how's this?:)

The Germans out do their normal level of PR fiasco by spending half the battle shelling the Statue of Liberty, apparently on the assumption that tourists are spotting for the British gunners.

However, American hostility is not only reduced but directed against the British when the British commander invites scores of top American dignitaries to a celebratory dinner after the battle where many classic examples of British 'cuisine' are served. Only through heroic efforts are medical professionals able to save most of the guests...:D

Add in some "Death by Bagpipes" and you'll have all America screaming for war faster than you can say...

Liberty Loving but Naive American: "So what's on the menu?"

Freedom Hating Limey Lobsterback: "Well, Sir, tonight we are having Black Pudding and Haggis."

Benjamin

P.S. I actually like English food, and Pipers Pub link in Pittsburgh is one of my favorite places to go to eat and catch up on soccer/football.
 
Some English foods strike me as a bit odd, true, but my family got introduced to cheesy garlic bread in an English pub, so it can't all be that bad.

...

Can it?

- Kelenas
 
Good choice of opponents
Moltke has 10 x 280mm guns vs Lion with 8 x 343mm (11 inch vs 13.5) but the German gas thicker armor.
Lion is faster, not as fast as designed, but still a knot and a half better. After sailing the Atlantic, neither ship will be making maximum speed, I'd assume a broadside battle at roughly 24 knots, the pre-dreadnoughts get left behind quickly, but serve to funnel the German into combat with the RN BC.
Topography is important. NY Harbor entrance is cone shaped, you can only go east, SE, or South. I'd presume a run to the south, down the Jersey coast, going straight home leads past Canadian Halifax, lots of light units. Better to head south, turn east once Lion is slipped. Assume the Germans ships at dusk. Dark coast as background for Brit gunners. Still has to run gauntlet to escape. British will have adequate warning from US Press, diplomats, etc.
Assume decent August weather. Night battle, British can choose range thanks to 1 knot advantage. Little damage from older RN ships. Moltke heads south, hugging 3 mile limit. If badly damaged, consider pulling back into US Terr waters, consider it a 2nd visit and gain extra time. Next port is Philly, can they make it there, or somehow shake the Lion?

Very few hits. (both ships actually took several hits at Jutland and survived) RN Admiral orders range shortened. 150 secondaries begin to do serious damage to each other. Fires make gunnery easier. Soon only 1 main gun turret operational on each ship.

German attempt to close range and fire torpedos. British Captain thinks Lion is trying to ram, orders his ship to ram them instead. Both miss. Positions are switched, German now east of British. Smoke from numerous small fired hides Moltke. German ship escapes.

Next morning, Lion limps into Philadelphia in near sinking condition. Royal Navy surprised to find Moltke already there, listing badly. Both ships are interned by America.

Real Ending: War continues after flurry of Newspaper stories of heroism and skill by both crews, no Anti German or British sentiment, only anti-war. Crews have massive drunken brawl at party thrown by Press. Many eventually filter back to own countries thru Neutral Shipping.

A##Hole Ending: Everyone sees battle as lesson in futility of War and coming meaningless slaughter. War ends. League of Nations formed and everyone happy. Fleets scrapped and turned into windmills.
 
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