German Americans and Nazi Birthright?

This is an incredibly dark idea, and since it requires a German victory (or stalemate in the east). Hitler envisioned Germans from the Americas being drawn back to the Greater German Reich, and helping resettle the Ostland. Israel, of course, uses Birth right to attract Jews to Israel by showing them Jews building their nation.

The idea of a bunch of Midwestern youths being shown propaganda in Germania, the beaches of the Crimea, etc. all suggest themselves, no?

Hilarity ensues when OSS backed guerillas accidentally blow up a train some are on.
 

Thande

Donor
It's possible, but wasn't there also this idea that America had become too mongrel to be counted as Aryan stock anymore?

Not that I'm perpetuating the idea that the Nazis had some coherent cast-iron ideology that they would rather die than go back on, of course.
 
It's possible, but wasn't there also this idea that America had become too mongrel to be counted as Aryan stock anymore?

Not that I'm perpetuating the idea that the Nazis had some coherent cast-iron ideology that they would rather die than go back on, of course.

Some Americans, but not all. The Nazis had no problem finding Aryans in Poland among the mongrel stock, they'll find it among their ideological competitors in the Cold War.
 

Susano

Banned
Heh, given some Ameriteens here:rolleyes::D I could see it. Oh, heh, hilarious problem with that, though: Again going by this forum here, those immigrants would surely be 90% male ;)

As for any American mongrelsiation, I dont think the Nazis would have much problem with it. There still was hardly any black-white offspring, and the English and their descendants would be Aryan enough by Nazi standards. And the fact that the Nazis were all about race, instead of, well, nation (in the sense of identity, culture etc) would even really faciliate that.
 
They may see propaganda, but many Germans migrated to the American Midwest as a result of a poor economy in the 1870's. Many were still monolithically Germanic in the 1940's and would have qualified as citizens.

German Americans enlisted in the army and fought two world wars. There is plenty of growing room in the US, but not in Europe, so I doubt if many would take advantage of their "Nazi citizenship" and move.
 
German Americans enlisted in the army and fought two world wars. There is plenty of growing room in the US, but not in Europe, so I doubt if many would take advantage of their "Nazi citizenship" and move.

Note I didn't say the idea would be successful.
 
As for any American mongrelsiation, I dont think the Nazis would have much problem with it. There still was hardly any black-white offspring, and the English and their descendants would be Aryan enough by Nazi standards. And the fact that the Nazis were all about race, instead of, well, nation (in the sense of identity, culture etc) would even really faciliate that.

It is interesting to note that the most Aryan of US states (Minnesota, Wisconsin) seem to be the least racist when it comes to segregation.
 
To get a large migration it would really have to depend on the extent of a German victory. The Germans signed repatriation agreements with the Soviet Union and Italy that allowed ethnic Germans to be repatriated from the Baltic States, Bessarabia and South Tyrol to the German Reich. In the unlikely scenario of a complete German victory over the United States, I would assume the Germans could forcibly repatriate ethnic Germans from the United States (and Canada too). Though such a scenario is ASB territory.

The other question is who exactly is German enough to settle in Germany? According to the 1940 census, there were 1,589,040 people in the United States using German as their primary language. This was a decline from 1930 where there were 2,188,006 German speakers registered. In 1930 there were 1,608,814 persons born in Germany and 370,914 born in Austria. Of these the 2/3 arrived before 1910.

Let us assume that the United States remains neutral, since IMHO that would be more plausible. Germany could attract some German immigrants and their children to return, especially if the U.S. economy remains mired with high unemployment. It was not until 1942 that U.S. unemployment decreased by a great deal, Germany by contrast had a much steeper and earlier decline in unemployment (mostly due to massive government spending on rearmament and public works). One would assume with all their new conquered lands the Germans unemployment would remain low for the foreseeable future.

German Unemployment
1933 26.3%
1934 14.9%
1935 11.6%
1936 8.3%
1937 4.6%
1938 2.1%
1939 0.5%

U.S. Unemployment Rate
1933 24.9%
1934 21.7%
1935 20.1%
1936 16.9%
1937 14.3%
1938 19.0%
1939 17.2%
1940 14.6%
1941 9.9%
1942 4.7%

Now on plausible return migration. I could not find figures for Germany for the depression. I was however able to find those of Sweden, a country with a similar emigration pattern to Germany's. Between 1930 and 1939 30,639 Swedes left the U.S. for Sweden. By contrast, a mere 3,960 Swedes emigrated to the U.S. between 1931-1940. This is significant because Swedish return migration had historically been low, with only around 15% of Swedes returning (the average for all Europeans being around 35%). However, Sweden fared relatively well throughout the Great Depression. This made enough Swedes feel they'd be better off back home. Presumably some Germans could be persuaded of the same.

If we consider that German and Austrian emigration to the United States had peaked in the 1880s and been declined to a trickle after WW1, I would estimate you could get a maximum of 100,000 Germans and German-Americans to return. This would probably require economic incentives such as free passage, guaranteed work and possibly tax holidays. However, I doubt many would want to go to the conquered territories. As with most return migrants, they would want to return to their areas of origin in Germany.
 
It is interesting to note that the most Aryan of US states (Minnesota, Wisconsin) seem to be the least racist when it comes to segregation.

Well, given that Wisconsin and Minessota had in 1960 about 2 and less than 1% black populations, it probably was a bit easier for them to be cool about it than, say, South Carolina, with over 50% in 1960.

Bruce
 
Well, given that Wisconsin and Minessota had in 1960 about 2 and less than 1% black populations, it probably was a bit easier for them to be cool about it than, say, South Carolina, with over 50% in 1960.

Bruce

The issue with minorities is usually about jobs and less about race although Indiana was one of the Klan's bases in the early 20th century.

But back to the Germans. I remember in the Band of Brothers miniseries that came out a few years ago. The Lt. that joined Easy Co. during the Bulge was famous for shooting German-Americans that had enlisted in the Wehrmacht. I don't know numbers but there was apparently some sort of zest for returning to the Fatherland.

One thing to keep in mind, is that any situation involving Lebensraum in E.E. predicates a German victory WW2 and as such American would be more isolationist. One Economic consquence of this more than likely a weaker US economy and maybe more reverse migration.
 
But back to the Germans. I remember in the Band of Brothers miniseries that came out a few years ago. The Lt. that joined Easy Co. during the Bulge was famous for shooting German-Americans that had enlisted in the Wehrmacht. I don't know numbers but there was apparently some sort of zest for returning to the Fatherland.

Did that actually happen? IIRC BoB was based on a non-fiction book.
 

MacCaulay

Banned
Heh, given some Ameriteens here:rolleyes::D I could see it. Oh, heh, hilarious problem with that, though: Again going by this forum here, those immigrants would surely be 90% male ;)

I can see it now...instead of hunting for wives in Ukraine in the 90s, lonely men can hunt in Poland in the 50s. :D
 
Did that actually happen? IIRC BoB was based on a non-fiction book.


I think so. I don't if anyone shot anyone my point was more to the act of German-Americans (in BoB natural born citizens) going back to Germany and enlisting because (here is my point) they felt more attached to a land they never saw than to the land of their birth.
 
What about Italian Americans? They might want to return to Mussolini's Italy!!!

Actually many did during the depression. Italians generally had one of the highest return-migration ratios of any nationality, not just in the U.S. but from Argentina and Brazil as well, with over 50% of all emigrants in the 1900-1930 period returning to Italy. Much of this was because most of the emigrants were male venturing out on their own with the ultimate goal of earning enough money to return. Between 1931 and 1940 Italy had 1,070,000 Italians returned to Italy, mostly from the Americas, but also from Western Europe.

The depression hit Italians in the U.S. harder than the German-Americans. Mostly because the unlike the German-Americans, Italians were overwhelmingly urban. Most were dependent on industrial work for employment. Unemployment for non-farm workers was 37% in 1933 and never fell below 20% throughout the decade. In Cleveland, Ohio it was 60% and Toledo it was 80% just to put things in perspective. In Italy it was much lower at 11% and nearly half of the population in Italy worked in agriculture. Italy also experienced steady economic growth in the 1930s, especially due to Mussolini's public works projects.

On a personal note, my family first arrived in New England in 1910 from Portugal, and returned in 1932. My grandfather says that the level of desperation was unimaginable at that time. There was no work and literally nothing to eat in the cities. At least in Portugal they had some plots of land and were able live off of that. In the 1960s and 1970s some returned with their children to make a second attempt. Growing up I always found it odd that I had relatives born in the U.S. in the 1920s that spoke much better English than their children.
 
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