German Allies after Nazi victory

Watch the Man in the High Castle that envisions this scenario directly. Japan and Germany would be masters of the universe, locked in an uneasy Cold War and the rest of the world would be gobbled up by both.
 
Grofaz might have let Hungary and Romania fight each other for all of Transylvania, because none of them was happy with the result of the second Vienna Award. Economically All the satellites would be dependent on Germany. Raw materials for manufactured goods. Italy might have a bone to save face.
Who's Grofaz?
 

elkarlo

Banned
Even Mussolini saw it: Nazi Germany's allies would be allied provinces, among Italy would be the most important one, nothing more. And they'd better not try to rock the boat, or they'd be turned into colonies, like Poland.
Well he was against Hitler u til he saw the wallies were going too nothing. Only then did he throw in his lot with them.
That said is there anything specific where Mussolini said about being a German ally?
 
Grossester Feldherr Aller Zeit = Grofaz. Not a nickname you wanted to be overheard using by the wrong people. Outside of the Luftwaffe, Göring's nickname was thrown around a lot, Der Dicke (fatty or the fat boy). Heydrich, well his sobriquet said it all - Der Henker (the hangman).
 
Italy is most definely going to get steamrolled by the Germans, even if they get their Neo-Roman Empire, because Germans and Italians, though allies, hated each other.

Japan on the other hand is a big what question. The Germans were a very effective land force, but the Japanese homeland was an island, they had a few ships and can bomb Japanese cities, but the Japanese had a larger navy then the Germans.
 
Italy is most definely going to get steamrolled by the Germans, even if they get their Neo-Roman Empire, because Germans and Italians, though allies, hated each other.

Japan on the other hand is a big what question. The Germans were a very effective land force, but the Japanese homeland was an island, they had a few ships and can bomb Japanese cities, but the Japanese had a larger navy then the Germans.

Assuming here that the Japanese are still able to exist at the time. If the UK/US signed peace with Germany (because of reasons, as it's always reasons), then what's to prevent them from focusing everything against Japan, whom by this point will already be embargoed when the Soviets fall. Heck, the US will already be at war against Japan by the time the Soviets fall.

And it's not that Japan had a larger Navy than the Germans. The Japanese had a Navy. The Germans had an easily sunk money sink (aside from their U-Boats). Heck, a victorious Germany going on a surface fleet building spree is great. That's tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of tons of steel not spent on anything useful.
 
If you read the Hitler's plans for future world after the (certain) victory of Third Reich, there are a lot of information about it: of course it depends by how Hitler wins the war but in general Nazi plans weren't generous with (former) Axis allies. A great part of Balkans would be colonized, especially present day Slovenia, Croatia, Serbia (Belgrade had be renominate Prinz-Eugen-Stadt) and Hungary. Bulgaria and Romania could hope to remain untouched but Transylvania had to be recolonized by German colonists. The entire Danube Valley was considered by Hitler as the future German granary. Czechoslovakia had to be annexed by Third Reich, included the fascist Slovakia. Baltics and Ukranians, who collaborated with Nazis against Soviets, are condemned to be exterminated as all the Slavs. Portugal, Finland and Spain could survived as puppet states. Norway and Denmark, as all Scandinavia and Benelux countries, had to be annexed. Vichy France would have to give up a great part of its Northern Territory, as Brittany and Burgundy. Regarding the two most important German allies, Italy and Japan, Hitler was preparing a perfect stab in the back: Japan was the next enemy to destroy, the only superpower remained between Germany and the total Aryan domination, and its "Yellow Race" was a threat for Berlin. Italians and in general Latin People were considered an ancient enemy and an inferior race: South Tyrolo was a primary target and so the Northern Italy, ancient territory of Holy Roman Empire. Rome was also strongly linked with Catholicism and the Pope, that, in Hitler's plans, were destined to be suppressed and persecuted to favor a new Nazi-lead Neo-Pagan Aryan religion. Few countries could count on Hitler's mercy or indifference: among others, South America nations (a little of hostility due the presence of mixed race but especially indifference), Muslims countries (Hitler was incredibly friendly with the fascist Muslims and considered Islam more compatible with German Culture than Christianity), Native Americans (ya, it's a strange thing but Hitler was a great admirator of Native tribes, considered them as Aryans (?) and promised to return back their ancient lands), Iran and Afghanistan (Aryan nations of course).

Hitler was never really into the whole Nordic Neo Paganism schtick. That was more Himmlers hobby.
 
WI the USA remained isolationist and avoided meddling in Latin American politics?
It would be easy for fascists - like Peron - to sell billions of tons of beef to Nazi Germany in exchange for the occasional “military advisor.”

OTL The CIA helped several former Nazis become “police advisors” to several South American fascist gov’ts.
 
WI the USA remained isolationist and avoided meddling in Latin American politics?
It would be easy for fascists - like Peron - to sell billions of tons of beef to Nazi Germany in exchange for the occasional “military advisor.”

OTL The CIA helped several former Nazis become “police advisors” to several South American fascist gov’ts.

You're misunderstanding American "Isolationism". It meant we tried not to get in European Alliances and wars. It didn't mean we didn't screw around in the Americas. And even that "isolation" was largely the result of us having the RN and the French Army between us and any other hostile power. When France fell the US shit a collective brick and congress immediately and unanimously voted in the Two Ocean Navy act. That act something like tripled the USN alone.
 
WI the USA remained isolationist and avoided meddling in Latin American politics?
It would be easy for fascists - like Peron - to sell billions of tons of beef to Nazi Germany in exchange for the occasional “military advisor.”

OTL The CIA helped several former Nazis become “police advisors” to several South American fascist gov’ts.

You're misunderstanding American "Isolationism". It meant we tried not to get in European Alliances and wars. It didn't mean we didn't screw around in the Americas. And even that "isolation" was largely the result of us having the RN and the French Army between us and any other hostile power. When France fell the US shit a collective brick and congress immediately and unanimously voted in the Two Ocean Navy act. That act something like tripled the USN alone.

Exactly. And, heck, it wasn't just the Americas. The US didn't want to get involved in overseas wars outside of American interests... But consider the reaction to Japan invading Indochina, or the fall of France like @Father Maryland mentioned. Or consider the plans for the US to occupy the Azores in the event of Portugal being annexed, the US "helpfully" taking over the occupation of Iceland to free up British forces, etc.

Even a more restrained US that isn't drawn into war by Japan (which has to go to war to conquer oil-producing areas to keep its energy production acceptable) will eventually enter war against Japan - they'll just wait for their building programs and fortifications to be completed. The more success that the Germans and the Japanese have, the closer the US gets to shifting into a total war economy.

Note that the US never managed to even get close to a total war economy; it started ramping down production in 1944.

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Either way, no Japan to be a German Ally, and Germany is cut off from the New World/Asia as the US props up the KMT remnants in China,and try to help keep India functioning (whether independent or part of Great Britain). Spain and Portugal can't join the Axis. The moment Portugal does, they lose every colony. The moment Spain does, they starve as the majority of their food and (I think) fuel oil came from the US at this time. The only other nearby allies might be Turkey, with Germany sponsoring Turkish revanchism to reclaim Mosul and the oil fields, but doing so alienates the Arab world, pushing them away from the Axis.
 
Exactly. And, heck, it wasn't just the Americas. The US didn't want to get involved in overseas wars outside of American interests... But consider the reaction to Japan invading Indochina, or the fall of France like @Father Maryland mentioned. Or consider the plans for the US to occupy the Azores in the event of Portugal being annexed, the US "helpfully" taking over the occupation of Iceland to free up British forces, etc.

Even a more restrained US that isn't drawn into war by Japan (which has to go to war to conquer oil-producing areas to keep its energy production acceptable) will eventually enter war against Japan - they'll just wait for their building programs and fortifications to be completed. The more success that the Germans and the Japanese have, the closer the US gets to shifting into a total war economy.

Note that the US never managed to even get close to a total war economy; it started ramping down production in 1944.

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Either way, no Japan to be a German Ally, and Germany is cut off from the New World/Asia as the US props up the KMT remnants in China,and try to help keep India functioning (whether independent or part of Great Britain). Spain and Portugal can't join the Axis. The moment Portugal does, they lose every colony. The moment Spain does, they starve as the majority of their food and (I think) fuel oil came from the US at this time. The only other nearby allies might be Turkey, with Germany sponsoring Turkish revanchism to reclaim Mosul and the oil fields, but doing so alienates the Arab world, pushing them away from the Axis.

Considering the US reaction to the Fall of France I have trouble imagining what the American reaction would be to the (I know incredibly unlikely/impossible) RN no longer being our shield in the Atlantic or Britain being humbled. At the very least I imagine the opposition to a peace time draft dissipates quick. The B36 project probably gets a lot more funding and attention as the US now needs a intercontinental bomber. Probably the American occupation of all non friendly European possessions in the Americas. Maybe the formation of an earlier foreign intel agency? If Britain were to somehow fall I imagine the US would try it's best to work out deals to support the British self governing dominions and maybe the colonies.
 
What about a surviving Vichy regime in France and even South American allies like Peron's Argentina?
Follow the money - which doesn't flow from Germany, as a victorious Germany would be starving its occupied people rather than import food - that was Hitler's goal. So, assuming Peron's presidency isn't butterflied away and the UK signs a ceasefire early on, Argentina would remain aligned to the UK if at all possible. TBH, a pragmatist like Peron won't touch Nazi Germany with a ten food pole: no nazi scientists to gather nor trade to be done. There might be an interest in renewing the military cooperation from the early 20th century (the world would be in awe of German military might), but even if the Holocaust remain hidden from ther rest of the world a quick look at the developing alliances around the world would quickly point out how much of a bad idea that is. The only possible thing I think is that Peron would be open to receiving educated Jews from the Third Reich if the Nazis would rather expel them... but by the time Peron becomes president, it would probably be too late for such educated Jews.

There is also the issue of how and when Germany wins. Peron gained political influence as a minister of the 1943 coup. That coup was stage to prevent the fraudulent election of conservative Robustiano Costas and due the tension, inside the Army, between the pro-Allied, pro-German (and pro-neutrality) factions. If the war ends in 1942 after a Brest-Litovsk type of peace, the USA is only at war with Japan and the UK signs a ceasefire, there is no discussion inside the Argentine army regarding what position to take in WW2 by 1943. There is also no USA pestering Latin America to get them to declare war on Germany (only Japan), so the Argentine nationalists may not be so incensed (maybe a mock declaration of war against Japan is on the cards?). So would a united army coup Castillo in '43? Or, in the face of an united army, is it possible that the Costas candidature is butterflied away and there is no coup? In that case, Peron remains a mountain troops coronel. And even if there is a coup, what happens to communism in Latin America after the USSR was defeated by Germany? Does it remain a credible threat, so Peron pushes his version of corporativism to keep it at bay? Or does it wane and, in turn, Peron doesn't cater so much to the worker's movement?
 
IMHO there is no scenario where the USA does not still exercise a rather heavy hand in the Western hemisphere, whether colonial islands and South American small bits or the various Latin countries. Even the most "isolationist" folks were never going to accept significant Nazi influence or presence in the USA's backyard.
 
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