I Blame Communism
Banned
Im not saying it should die out, but it should be moderated and more than just separatist sentament or chauvinism.
You can be a nationalist as long as you don't want independence. That would be wrong.
For comparison, you can have democracy as long as you don't vote for that other guy. That would be wrong.
Nationalism is the right of the people of a territory to have self-determination.
As for your point about democratic federations 85% of votes did vote to keep the union intact. The native Baltic nationalites may have irreconcilable but they were small in number. (And didnt have a massive majority since about 3) of the people in the Baltic States were Russian)
Not in bloody Estonia, and that's the important thing.
To take the example of my own homeland (I am unionist, and yet I believe that if the people of Scotland have a stupid attack and vote for independence, so be it): Scotland votes to leave UK. England votes no, Scotland stays.
This is fair how?
And forgive me for saying this and the stablity of a multi-ethic state of 300 mill should be put in jeopardy for the sake of appeasing a tiny minorty.
"Shut up Estonia, you're small." What a world, what a world...
The other SSR would've likely stayed content if not for economic tailspin, caused by Gorby's botched reforms it gave nationalist and opportunistic self-serveing party bossies a chance to aggrandize themselves they wouldnt have had otherwise. *Yeltsin is a case in point here)
You talk like modern Estonia is a "gangster state". Russia looks rather like that, true, but Estonia has actually done very well for itself.
Meh. it depends on the country...And I'm from a small one.
In response to your earlier argument:
Scotland!
Scottish Enlightenment!
Second industrialised area in the world!
Declaration of Arbroath!
No, sorry, you can't be proud of that stuff. You're too small!
I am offended.
No it's not alright, but people will forgive a winner that was my main point, Hitler lost. Stalin didnt...
What a mad, mad world...
Eh, like the US. Britain or Turkey hell even Sri-Lanka has separatist problems are thay all wrong for having a domament majority, and are thier goverments wanting to exert full sovereignty within it;s own borders and thus keeping the nation intact?
The Turks are up against a communist terrorist organisation. The Sri Lankans are up against a totally nuckin futs! terrorist organisation. Human rights abuses in Sri Lanka are wrong and Turkey could display more tact, but the Tamils and Kurds can shut up until they pursue seperation by peaceful democratic means, much like the Estonians or my nemesis, the SNP.
Or Russia today should it split up futher into little ethnic enclaves? On any practical level I dont think thats a good idea, such things tend to have serious long term long term (often bloody) consequences.
Saving lives comes first.
In case you're confused by the threat title, though, independent Estonia hasn't murdered its Russians.
Hell in the former USSR alone there's been some very nasty wars, and other tragic stuff that likley woulnt have happened if the USSR had been still intact.
I actually agree that a loose federation could have been good. I think that as a unionist I am obligated to believe that loose federation for Russia, Ukraine, and Belorus would have been better (and would still be better if Russia cleaned up and Belorus pulled its head of its arse, not that Ukraine is perfect by any means), and some other countries like the 'Stans might also have been better off participating. Nevertheless, the Baltics voted for independence. You can't turn back the clock on that.
Also take a real close look at the guys who took over after it fell, a very very nasty bunch.
Toomas Hendrik Ilves, wanted for electoral fraud and conspiracy to commit genocide!
No, wait, what?
Yugoslavia is another case in point of what can happen if folks get this one volk one fatherland idea stuck in their heads. It can start out with slogans and protesta and end with war and genocide.
For all the mess that was Croatia and Bosnia, one can't really fault the Slovenes. Seperatism is only bad when it brings about nasty war, ethnic cleansing, and genocide.
Illeagal? Says who the Estonian goverment maybe? You cant call the USSR's rule in the Baltics an occupation; it was a full annexaion. The Baltic were fully a part of the Soviet state (whiter they liked it or not)
Ergo, German presence in west-central Poland between the years of 1939 and 1944 was totally legal. It was annexed! It became part of the state, like it or not!
Given the fact the Russians make up 30% of Estonia's population and the fact that most were born there/lived there for decades. This smacks of pettyness. Noteably none of the other former SSR's has done such a thing.
I disagree with Estonia's policies. It's not Apartheid, but it's bad. People are where people are. It would be like Germany and Poland wanting their 1939 borders back. Mcuh as what changed the demographics was a tragedy, they have changed, end of story.
Yes like all modern day Western nations do.... It should be ponited out the Russin like other immagrents tended to stick together and lived in the smes areas and smetimes formed a majorty in some towns.
And?
Also the Soviets would've regarded the idea to be ass-backward and wanted to Balts to learn Russian instead this was more pracical as the USSR used Russian as an intra etnic language.
I have taken over your country! Now you must learn my language!
That's sure not the behaviour of a country trying to build ethnic trust and a long-lasting federation...
As for Finno-Ugric language groups dying out I doubt the bigger Baltic groups are in any real danger, but for the smaller ones I can only say it happens Welsh is kinda dying out too...
What I think he's trying to say is that Russia has piss-poor protection for small minorities so it's unfair for you to rag on Estonia alone for that issue.