Generals between 1453-1700 need love too.

In general I dislike these best, worst threads, since neither praise nor condemning is ever entirely fair and life is much to messy for superlatives. That said I tend to participate in these discussions regulary, either because I think someone was fundamentally stupid (as Lusignan in the 1066-1453 thread atm) or because I think that some verdict (positive or negative) is a gross simplification.

This time I´ve two names who imo deserve mentioning: The Great Elector and Georg von Derfflinger. Those two did certainly not have the overwhelming successes of others in the list. But they started in a poor country with hardly any army and laid the foundations for the Prussian army. It had perhaps not yet the outstanding quality of later ages, but under their leadership it was a very capable instrument of war as Fehrbellin or the Great Sleigh Drive prove. I have to admit I have a particular soft spot for Derfflinger: the man tricked the garrison of Rathenow into opening the gates by posing as Swedish officer (such things hardly ever work outside movies) and rode onto his last campaign aged 84.
 
What exactly for?

I'm not arguing, just trying to put him into perspective with the accomplishments others can name.

Perhaps for his skills as a cavalry commander, or for his part in forming, training and organizing the New Model Army, or essentially pacifying Britain and Ireland, or for his impressive crushing victories at Preston and Dunbar and the final defeat of the Royalists at Worcester.

I'm not saying he's the best of all the potential choiced between 1453 and 1700, but I think a strong case can be made for him to be in the top ten.
 
I don't think you're mixing him up, no. But in the great scheme of things, I'm not sure what that says about him in this period.

Haven't studied the Thirty Years War enough to be convinced.
Well the great scheme of things is that he was arguably one of the hapsburgs (aside from parma) greateast generals. In the grand scheme he prolonged the war that the HRE would have lost even more badly had he not been their leading to a much harsher and much more devastating peace of westphalia for the hapsburgs. By the way thirthy years war was till the 1700s the bloodiest war fought in european history that lasted 30 years and completely ruined germany which was still recovering from its effects by the time of bismark. It fundamentally changed the balance of power over central europe and crippled the hapsburgs as the dominating force of germany and made the HRE become a figurehead when it came to dealing with the german princes. Plus it involved some of the greateast european generals such as adolphus, turenne , and le grande conde all of whoom wallenstein was able to match.
 
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Jan Sobieski. I mean, I know, Polishwank and all that, but the number of times he led hilariously outnumbered armies against the Ottomans and won has to count for something.
 
Jan Sobieski. I mean, I know, Polishwank and all that, but the number of times he led hilariously outnumbered armies against the Ottomans and won has to count for something.

Not being an expert, I'd love to see specifics on how often and what numbers and from where.
 
Skanderbeg, who was both active during this period and the one before, should also be considered. He originally fought for the Ottomans from 1423 to 1443, although he then deserted and formed a opposing coalition. Although he was consistently outnumbered, he managed to defend Albania against the Ottomans from 1444 to 1468, and won more than 20 battles, not to mention repulsing three sieges of his capital, and actually extending operations into Ottoman territory in some cases.
 
well he did stalemate adolphus and did achieve the most victories for the hapsburgs during the 30 year war and was thier best general I believe or am i mixing him up with someone else?

FB
The fact that Europe obtained the mechanism of power and generated all military innovations over the ages forces us to focus in Europe and to some eastern generals in so far that they influenced European affairs to a greater or lesser extent,for example Mongols and to the lesser extent Arabs.(that for your post 24)

Wallenstein is greater than you think:apart from the fact that was a great
strategist,he conceived the general idea of pangermanism(not necessarily
good) and he started without himself knowing(probably) an institution that had great influence in European and world affairs: The Organization known as the German General Staff born during the Thirty Years War in the Head of Albrect Valclav von Wallenstein and his army,and mentioned by general von Seekt in his book:"The Organization of the German General Staff" which incidently had another side effect:introduced the idea of Business Organisation to certain Americans and the subject of Business Management was born...
 
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