Generalissimo Von Schleicher?

MrHola

Banned
WI Kurt von Schleicher had held out somehow (maybe getting Hindenburg's ear and isolating Von Papen, or Hindenburg dies soon after Von Schleicher becomes Chancellor) to establish a military dictatorship without the Nazis? Wondering the impact if any on Spanish Civil War, (would Germany assist Franco? would he succeed without German help?) Probably no WW2, but would there be a German-Polish war?

Would Germany have gone the way of Spain OTL, i.e. a general in charge with a return to constitutional government later on.Von Schleicher seemed to favor an Hohenzollern restoration, would this have occured sooner or later?

If Hindenburg dies (say, December 10, 1932), who is the new Reichs President? It's too soon for a restoration. Von Schleicher needs someone he can control. Or does Von Schleicher assume the post himself, combining it with the Chancellor? On the other hand, won’t this be seen as too much of a power grab?

Another question is, what will Hitler do? He won't accept Schleicher's dictatorship happily. I can see a Romanian solution defining itself, whereby a military strongman both keeps the far left outlawed and at bay, and beheads the far right, while carrying out some of the right's policies - thus stabilizing the country and his own grip on power.

Is here a chance the Nazi Party would split? The party was in financial straits due to there having been four election campaigns in 1932. Hitler and the Strasser brothers were getting restive. If Von Schleicher could get approval ("I need to protect the country against the Red menace and the Brown threat.") from the international community, he could start a rearmament. Bruening had actually done so but his government had fallen. (Bruening had also planned a restoration.)

Internationally, Von Schleicher would be in an interesting position, in that he would be repressing Communists and keeping these Mussolini-style guys (which is how they would seem) out of power. One balances off the other, either way.

If there’s going to be a restoration, then the Kaiser would probably remain a figurehead. Having a Kaiser will make the royalists happy; having a Kaiser with ceremonial tasks will sweeten the pill for those who did not want him back in the first place; and Von Schleicher keeps the real power for himself. Personally, I think a military government would wait a few years before bringing up the question of restoration, until 1936 or so.

A GREAT Kaiser would, in my eyes, be Louis Ferdinand.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Ferdinand,_Prince_of_Prussiahttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Ferdinand,_Prince_of_Prussia

Any thoughts so far? Any implausibilities?
 
WI Kurt von Schleicher had held out somehow (maybe getting Hindenburg's ear and isolating Von Papen, or Hindenburg dies soon after Von Schleicher becomes Chancellor) to establish a military dictatorship without the Nazis? Wondering the impact if any on Spanish Civil War, (would Germany assist Franco? would he succeed without German help?) Probably no WW2, but would there be a German-Polish war?

Schleicher wanted to split the Nazis. Since they were almost broke at the end of 1932, this is not implausible. Also, there was tension among them, with the Strasser brothers opposing Hitler, and Röhm wanting a more socialist nation, so to speak.


Would Germany have gone the way of Spain OTL, i.e. a general in charge with a return to constitutional government later on.Von Schleicher seemed to favor an Hohenzollern restoration, would this have occured sooner or later?

The prospects of a restoration are interesting, but there was some feeling that "monarchy is like so five centuries ago". On the other hand, a monarch means no elections for that Austrian to get himself a national platform running for the job.

If Hindenburg dies (say, December 10, 1932), who is the new Reichs President? It's too soon for a restoration. Von Schleicher needs someone he can control. Or does Von Schleicher assume the post himself, combining it with the Chancellor? On the other hand, won’t this be seen as too much of a power grab?

The Weimar Constitution said that the President and Chancellor could not be the same person. Yes, Hitler's assumption of the post required an amendment. OTOH, a number of people noted that the Weimar Constitution was written in such a way as to make a restoration practicable.


Another question is, what will Hitler do? He won't accept Schleicher's dictatorship happily. I can see a Romanian solution defining itself, whereby a military strongman both keeps the far left outlawed and at bay, and beheads the far right, while carrying out some of the right's policies - thus stabilizing the country and his own grip on power.

The fear was that there was a 100,000-man Reichswehr facing a 1,000,000-man SA. And the Communists (Red Guard), Social Democrats (Reichsbanner), and Nationalists (Stahlhelm) all had their own private militias. Did Schleicher have the diplomatic skill to win some of them over?

The thing to do would have been for him and Papen not to split, but then there would have been the problem of Papen's having dismissed the (Social Democrat) Prussian state government.


Is here a chance the Nazi Party would split? The party was in financial straits due to there having been four election campaigns in 1932. Hitler and the Strasser brothers were getting restive. If Von Schleicher could get approval ("I need to protect the country against the Red menace and the Brown threat.") from the international community, he could start a rearmament. Bruening had actually done so but his government had fallen. (Bruening had also planned a restoration.)

Yes.
Brüning had also been working for a substantial revision of Versailles. According to Gordon Craig's The Politics of the Prussian Army 1640-1945, he was working on an expansion of the Reichswehr to 250,000 and at least some of the banned weapons. And, perhaps, the restoration, apparently of Wilhelm II's grandson.


Internationally, Von Schleicher would be in an interesting position, in that he would be repressing Communists and keeping these Mussolini-style guys (which is how they would seem) out of power. One balances off the other, either way.

If there’s going to be a restoration, then the Kaiser would probably remain a figurehead. Having a Kaiser will make the royalists happy; having a Kaiser with ceremonial tasks will sweeten the pill for those who did not want him back in the first place; and Von Schleicher keeps the real power for himself. Personally, I think a military government would wait a few years before bringing up the question of restoration, until 1936 or so.

Indeed. And, it makes for one less opportunity for Austrian opportunists to kick up a fuss.

Hm. Hitler goes back to Austria, overthrows Dollfuss, and National Socialist Austria begins intriguing in Germany . . .


A GREAT Kaiser would, in my eyes, be Louis Ferdinand.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Ferdinand,_Prince_of_Prussiahttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Ferdinand,_Prince_of_Prussia

Any thoughts so far? Any implausibilities?

I wrote a TL on soc.history.what-if on a similar theme, and expanded it into a novel. However, it wasn't Schleicher who was the leader.

I'd be interested to see a development of this as well.
 
The fear was that there was a 100,000-man Reichswehr facing a 1,000,000-man SA. And the Communists (Red Guard), Social Democrats (Reichsbanner), and Nationalists (Stahlhelm) all had their own private militias. Did Schleicher have the diplomatic skill to win some of them over?
Well, the Reichsbanner (strictly speaking, not just Social Democrats) might be relatively easy to convince- defending the democracy of the Republic is their purpose, after all, and this is a group with a stated goal of removing that democracy going up against the duly appointed Chancellor of the Republic, and indeed the Republic itself.
The Red Guard... well, getting them on his side might be hard, but at least they look rather unlikely to join with the SA. They might try to move in the aftermath, after all else have been weakened, though...
That leaves the Stahlhelm. Slightly more tricky, altough they might be convinced by playing up the SA's leftist tendencies. Also, it is possible that such could be used to convince the Versailles Powers to allow a slight expansion of the Reichswehr. Some members of the Stahlhelm should be attracted to the concept of being a member of the proper military, again.
 
If Hindenburg dies earlier, von Schleicher becomes President, per the Constitution. Since he can't occupy both offices at once (v.S. not being Hitler), he'd need to appoint someone - probably a nobody patsy.
 
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