General Precolonial Philippines Ideas Thread

In a no-spanish philippines TL with a pod just before or around of magellan's time, Saludang or Selurong should be the name of Luzon.
 
Greek traders did reach the islands in 21 AD. But have the same Chinese "sickness" of not parting or imparting technology with the locals in OTL.

Source : Felix Regalado and Quentin B. Franco, History of Panay (Ilo-ilo City Central Philippines University , 1973 ed., Eliza B. Grimo, p. 78.)

Ok, who can go to Iloilo and go to CPU to find the book and get more info? :p

This is interesting and at a such an early period of our history. It even mentioned it on Wikipedia.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultu..._Philippines#Maritime_culture_and_aquaculture
^^^
-----The Visayan Islands had earlier encounter with the Greek traders in 21 AD.[7]

Anyway please elaborate more. This is mind-boggling and and the "what ifs" and "butterflies" would be massive on proto-Philippines.
 
In a no-spanish philippines TL with a pod just before or around of magellan's time, Saludang or Selurong should be the name of Luzon.

But that's just the name of the Kingdom of Manila.

Also, Luzon probably wouldn't even be a unified state in this TL. Besides, it wasn't even the Spanish who first called the island Luzon.
 
Actually, the wheel and other technology did not apply to Luzon due to the most of the urban population living beside the river, so did Mindanao and for Visayas, the transportation was beside the river, Luzon under Javanese influence before the Bruneian invasion, since a lot of the population in Luzon was decimated in the Pinatubo eruption, the Islamic converts could multiply if given time, but the Spanish invaded before Islam became accepted in Luzon(since at that time there are still a lot of people against it) and before it can recover from the destruction brought by the Pinatubo eruption.

I think Islam would do wonders for both Luzon and Mindanao since it would encourage population increase and urbanization which would cause technologies to be actually used.

I believe the problem here is time and resistance. You need Islam to be present earlier than 1400s. Plus, the Hindu kingdoms would resist. The Visayans were successful resisting while grip on Luzon wasnt really 100%.

Enough time for the Europeans to arrive. Besides the Islamic engineering technology that Brunei will impart will just be enough until 1600s. After that unless somehow Islam has some sort of revival PoD, technology will stagnate compared to Europe.

Ok, who can go to Iloilo and go to CPU to find the book and get more info? :p

This is interesting and at a such an early period of our history. It even mentioned it on Wikipedia.

If you cannot borrow or read from the National Library or the local library can purchase it online and have it delivered at your doorstep.

Anyway please elaborate more. This is mind-boggling and and the "what ifs" and "butterflies" would be massive on proto-Philippines.

Shouldnt be mind blogging since that information was available since 1973. Our Barangays/Barrios were also somewhat similar to Greek City States in organization. There was also a very high literacy rate among locals (than Europe) before the Spanish came although not Greek but Baybayin(Brahmic scripts). Sexual tolerance like polygamy or Equal status of women.

The advancements of the locals were not that useful in fighting any invader from Islam to the Spanish since they were social/cultural advancements.

But with regards to engineering advancements the locals where not really at par with China or Europe.
 
I believe the problem here is time and resistance. You need Islam to be present earlier than 1400s. Plus, the Hindu kingdoms would resist. The Visayans were successful resisting while grip on Luzon wasnt really 100%.

Enough time for the Europeans to arrive. Besides the Islamic engineering technology that Brunei will impart will just be enough until 1600s. After that unless somehow Islam has some sort of revival PoD, technology will stagnate compared to Europe.

Perhaps we can engineer a POD that makes the muslims multiply in Luzon earlier just after the invasion and the Pinatubo eruption, the Apayao, Pangasinic Cordilleran tribes and Ifugao will convert if the conversion to islam is fully accepted by the lowlander natives since they are lowlander in culture, actually in OTL there is still some resistance in the lowlanders in Luzon against Christianity into the latest part of the Spanish occupation so it is not attractive to them, Luzon aka Saludang before the Spanish came is divided into the Majapahitan and Bruneian Parties, if we unite the two factions under one person perhaps there is a fighting chance they can win against the Spanish but the island would end up like Sulawesi in steroids..

I'm making a rough draft for a Mongol Philippines TL. Can you give some inputs, guys?

Lets start with Sasaban marrying a brother of Kublai Khan instead of the Majapahit founder, I read some annals that the mongols wanted the Singhasari princess, the official wife of the Majapahit founder, the marriage with Sasaban happened around that time as well.
 
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I believe the problem here is time and resistance. You need Islam to be present earlier than 1400s. Plus, the Hindu kingdoms would resist. The Visayans were successful resisting while grip on Luzon wasnt really 100%.

Enough time for the Europeans to arrive. Besides the Islamic engineering technology that Brunei will impart will just be enough until 1600s. After that unless somehow Islam has some sort of revival PoD, technology will stagnate compared to Europe.



If you cannot borrow or read from the National Library or the local library can purchase it online and have it delivered at your doorstep.



Shouldnt be mind blogging since that information was available since 1973. Our Barangays/Barrios were also somewhat similar to Greek City States in organization. There was also a very high literacy rate among locals (than Europe) before the Spanish came although not Greek but Baybayin(Brahmic scripts). Sexual tolerance like polygamy or Equal status of women.

The advancements of the locals were not that useful in fighting any invader from Islam to the Spanish since they were social/cultural advancements.

But with regards to engineering advancements the locals where not really at par with China or Europe.

Sadly after searching for it for a long time, I could not find it available online. When I go back home in four years likely, I will check it out.

Still its interesting though. I just find it really eye-opening that Greeks visited us that early.

--

BTW, check out this DBWI I created!

https://www.alternatehistory.com/Discussion/showthread.php?p=12171357#post12171357
 
Check this out

I was scrolling through youtube and I found this video about proto-Philippines. Their is a lot of interesting information about Ancient Philippines, its interactions with SEA.

Question, the video talks about the "Kingdom of Luzon." Is he referring to Tondo, the polity?

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BTW, what do think about this idea as well.
 
I was scrolling through youtube and I found this video about proto-Philippines. Their is a lot of interesting information about Ancient Philippines, its interactions with SEA.

Question, the video talks about the "Kingdom of Luzon." Is he referring to Tondo, the polity?

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BTW, what do think about this idea as well.

He is referring to Tondo..but calling it as the Lusung Kingdom is a misinformation.
 
So for brainstorming, what would be a good names for a ATL United Philippines?

I think this is a far fetched idea but what about the possibility of Filipino seafarers discovering the Americas before Columbus by getting shipwrecked into California?
 
So for brainstorming, what would be a good names for a ATL United Philippines?

I think this is a far fetched idea but what about the possibility of Filipino seafarers discovering the Americas before Columbus by getting shipwrecked into California?

The Idea of the Philippines is ASB before the age of explorations, since the Northern Part of Luzon was oriented to Java/Sumatra relations, Sulu focused on both Sumatra/China relations, the Central Part is connected to China and Mindanao is more closely focused South...we need to accept that we cannot unite it any alternate scenario - the plausible alternative is for the borneans to unite the OTL Philippines and more of Malay archipelago..both Mindanao and the Northern part of Luzon(roughly regions 1-3) can become Powerhouses of their own while the middle part becomes engaged in trade with China..
 
So for brainstorming, what would be a good names for a ATL United Philippines?

I think this is a far fetched idea but what about the possibility of Filipino seafarers discovering the Americas before Columbus by getting shipwrecked into California?

Can't happen unless *Philippines is actually the center of a seafaring kingdom and not a scattered bunch of small polities and tribes. It'd probably be *Chinese in nature.

What if the Philippines is part of the Sinosphere?

It was to some small extent, albeit on the periphery. Make southern China more mercantile and navy-oriented than it already was, and you can get the Duchy of Mayi.
 
It was to some small extent, albeit on the periphery. Make southern China more mercantile and navy-oriented than it already was, and you can get the Duchy of Mayi.
You forgot the Huangdom of Pangasinan, though.
(Oh, I imagine the legendary Princess Urduja wearing a mix of Hanfu and proto-baro't saya)
 
^ Does she really exist?

Nah, it's probably just misinterpretation of Ibn Batutta's stuff.

Well, personally I doubt if she really exists, Anyway, being a semi-Sinicized kingdom, I expect the rulers of Pangasinan wearing a mix of tropicalized version of Hanfu and pre-Hispanic Philippine clothing.

A more Sinicized *Philippines does not necessarily mean unification, but one would think Sinicization would help with it, looking at Vietnam. Ma-i and Pangasinan may well become parts of a single state, or something. Though pre-Hispanic chronology is a bit vague, from what I've read.
 
Can't happen unless *Philippines is actually the center of a seafaring kingdom and not a scattered bunch of small polities and tribes. It'd probably be *Chinese in nature.



It was to some small extent, albeit on the periphery. Make southern China more mercantile and navy-oriented than it already was, and you can get the Duchy of Mayi.

You forgot the Huangdom of Pangasinan, though.
(Oh, I imagine the legendary Princess Urduja wearing a mix of Hanfu and proto-baro't saya)

^ Does she really exist?

Well, personally I doubt if she really exists, Anyway, being a semi-Sinicized kingdom, I expect the rulers of Pangasinan wearing a mix of tropicalized version of Hanfu and pre-Hispanic Philippine clothing.

Nah, it's probably just misinterpretation of Ibn Batutta's stuff.



A more Sinicized *Philippines does not necessarily mean unification, but one would think Sinicization would help with it, looking at Vietnam. Ma-i and Pangasinan may well become parts of a single state, or something. Though pre-Hispanic chronology is a bit vague, from what I've read.



Northern Luzon(Regions 1-3) was never connected to China, Northern Luzon is commercially connected to Northern Sumatra and Java, this is shocking but true, Southern Luzon and Visayas which is connected to China as well as Sulu which is commercially connected to China as well as to Malay Archipelago.

Northern Luzon was settled by Malays and Javanese which mixed with the natives..
 
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In ATL were the Spanish still arrive to the Philippines, could a Sinified Luzon from the Mongols resist Spanish conquest (for a while) while the Visayas and Mindanao fall under Spanish control?
 
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