General Precolonial Philippines Ideas Thread

The maps looks like 1500 since you got Kota Selurong.

If you want Mongol times, Islamize states shouldnt exist yet including Brunei, Sulu. The Conquest of Manila by Brunei hasnt happened yet.

For Luzon what you want is a busy trading port plus control of gold, iron(metallurgy). This means Cordilleras+Manila.
 
The maps looks like 1500 since you got Kota Selurong.

If you want Mongol times, Islamize states shouldnt exist yet including Brunei, Sulu. The Conquest of Manila by Brunei hasnt happened yet.

For Luzon what you want is a busy trading port plus control of gold, iron(metallurgy). This means Cordilleras+Manila.

Actually, Majapahit was in control of Luzon before the Bornean invasion, a certain historian told me that the people of Manila came from Calatagan, and possibly that Calatagan is the Selurong that was seized by Brunei.

What we need for Luzon is for Majapahit to flee to Luzon after an alternate christianization and islamization of Bali and Java.
 
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I did open up the thought on my Sinicized Philippines thread of the Mongols vassalizing the pre-hispanic Filipino states.

Something new to think about, what about possibility of Japanese traders transforming Aparri into a city-state? It was established as a trading post and I think it would be interesting to see a Japanese state on the Northern Luzon coast.

We should turn this into a repository of prehispanic Filipino threads. If we could gather and search for all of the threads pertaining to a prehispanic Philippines and put it on here. @Captain Orange you should post the link of them onto the opening post.

Here are mine that I started a long time ago.

https://www.alternatehistory.com/Discussion/showthread.php?t=317417

https://www.alternatehistory.com/Discussion/showthread.php?t=336652

Also here is a map of pre-hispanic Philippines.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/81/Philippines_(pre_1521).jpg

OK, thanks. OP edited.

OTL Manila area is the best location, IMO.

Interesting idea. Hope to see a TL out of this. Imagine the possibilities.

Thanks. It's still a concept, though.
 
I want a Sinicized ATL Philippine or whatsoever name archipelago under single political entity where Ilocanos, Kapampangans, Visayans, and the rest mostly adopt Hanzi characters with Baybayin mixture and later on, an infusion of massive Chinese immigrants from Fujian and Guangdong to make average ATL Filipinos or whatsoever adjective to emerge look like Japanese or Vietnamese through intermarriage. An ATL Philippine version of OTL Sinicization of Japan and Vietnam.
 
I want a Sinicized ATL Philippine archipelago under single political entity where Ilocanos, Kapampangans, Visayans, and the rest mostly adopt Hanzi characters with Baybayin mixture and later on, an infusion of massive Chinese immigrants from Fujian and Guangdong to make average ATL Filipinos look like Japanese or Vietnamese through intermarriage. An ATL Philippine version of OTL Sinicization of Japan and Vietnam.

A diverted Yuan invasion of Java later reinforced by early Ming colonization may help. That would give us two and a half centuries of history. The tributary state of 麻逸, centered on OTL Mindoro, Laguna, and Manila. You'd have a more Hanunoo or Buhid influenced kana analogue, though.
 
On top of that, I think you should have Indianized States to the South, like the Rajahnate of Cebu dominating all of the Visayas and the Kingdom of Butuan dominating in Davao. Spanish colonization should definitely be included.
 
I did some reading. It looks like Central Luzon might be the best place for the Mongols to set up a capital.

Assuming that Central Luzon was a plain back in prehispanic time and not the Spanish cutting down the trees.

I want a Sinicized ATL Philippine or whatsoever name archipelago under single political entity where Ilocanos, Kapampangans, Visayans, and the rest mostly adopt Hanzi characters with Baybayin mixture and later on, an infusion of massive Chinese immigrants from Fujian and Guangdong to make average ATL Filipinos or whatsoever adjective to emerge look like Japanese or Vietnamese through intermarriage. An ATL Philippine version of OTL Sinicization of Japan and Vietnam.

Well, from my understanding, Japan is an offshoot of Chinese culture.

The best example of a sinicized Philippines in OTL would be Japan, Korea, Vietnam. They are not Chinese but definitely influence by China or Sinicized.

The problem with cultural identical with OTL China is geography and time. Loyalties form thru geography. And in the case of more centralized state, decisions differ between what the Imperial Chinese government will decide and the local government will decide. E.G. we know China went eventually with Mandarin. Most likely locals in what we know as OTL Philippines will use Cantonese or Hokkien instead.

You can say at which point in time one was influence by China. The earlier you are influenced by China the less chance you are closer culturally with present day China. Singapore is perfect example, which Chinese influence only happened in modern times or at least in more recent times. Compare that to those influence by Chinese culture earlier, like Japan.
 
Assuming that Central Luzon was a plain back in prehispanic time and not the Spanish cutting down the trees.

They must have been plains back then, considering three kingdoms sprouted there before the Spanish.

Well, from my understanding, Japan is an offshoot of Chinese culture.

The best example of a sinicized Philippines in OTL would be Japan, Korea, Vietnam. They are not Chinese but definitely influence by China or Sinicized.

The problem with cultural identical with OTL China is geography and time. Loyalties form thru geography. And in the case of more centralized state, decisions differ between what the Imperial Chinese government will decide and the local government will decide. E.G. we know China went eventually with Mandarin. Most likely locals in what we know as OTL Philippines will use Cantonese or Hokkien instead.

You can say at which point in time one was influence by China. The earlier you are influenced by China the less chance you are closer culturally with present day China. Singapore is perfect example, which Chinese influence only happened in modern times or at least in more recent times. Compare that to those influence by Chinese culture earlier, like Japan.

Yes, I want my Mangyan-centered State of Mayi.
 
Another potential idea. What if Alexander lives longer and reached Southeast Asia? Or maybe some Greek merchants.

...no. He could barely get to the Indus, let alone the Ganges.

Alexander is more likely to get to Korea.

Anyway, if we're looking for pre-Philippine PoDs, the best would relate to China in some way. Perhaps the Three Kingdoms period extended, with Shu and Wu remaining independent of Wei but being too weak to take over China. Wu takes to the sea and establishes a hegemony over the South China Sea.
 
I think Luzon could have been similar to Bali had the Bruneians did not attack the Island in the early 16th Century, besides if the Javanese still experience a population increase and/or the destruction/islamization and christianization of its Homeland the Hindu Javanese could go to Luzon and I think more Javanese settlers would have good effects in the place.

In an earlier POD, the Ancestors of the Acehnese(Chams) fleeing the Viets could go to Luzon in Cagayan Valley and Pampanga River Floodplains instead of Sumatra hybridizing with the locals like the the Javanese did in OTL.
 
I like the Mongol factor. It is probably the best chance for a united Philippine archipelagic state pre-1521.

Call me bias, but I find a united prehispanic Philippines more fascinating.

PS: Japanese colony in Cagayan River valley? I might do a TL on that.
 
I like the Mongol factor. It is probably the best chance for a united Philippine archipelagic state pre-1521.

Call me bias, but I find a united prehispanic Philippines more fascinating.

PS: Japanese colony in Cagayan River valley? I might do a TL on that.

If it's prehispanic, it's not Philippine~

What we call our "natural borders" only came about because of the Spanish period. In another world, it could have been that these islands would be a province of Indonesia, or perhaps a crown of the British Empire in an arc sweeping from the Malay Peninsula west to Borneo and north to Batanes. It could have been that the Philippines would be a country of five regions, with Taiwan and Borneo subsumed into itself.

And with a pre-1565 TL, it could have been that Mindanao and Palawan would be provinces of a Bruneian empire, or the northern half of what we call the Philippines would be a Sinicized tributary state akin to Vietnam. It could even be both, and the Philippines would be not one, but two nations with entirely divergent histories.
 
I like the Mongol factor. It is probably the best chance for a united Philippine archipelagic state pre-1521.

Call me bias, but I find a united prehispanic Philippines more fascinating.

PS: Japanese colony in Cagayan River valley? I might do a TL on that.

If it's prehispanic, it's not Philippine~

What we call our "natural borders" only came about because of the Spanish period. In another world, it could have been that these islands would be a province of Indonesia, or perhaps a crown of the British Empire in an arc sweeping from the Malay Peninsula west to Borneo and north to Batanes. It could have been that the Philippines would be a country of five regions, with Taiwan and Borneo subsumed into itself.

And with a pre-1565 TL, it could have been that Mindanao and Palawan would be provinces of a Bruneian empire, or the northern half of what we call the Philippines would be a Sinicized tributary state akin to Vietnam. It could even be both, and the Philippines would be not one, but two nations with entirely divergent histories.

Luzon was a transit point in trade of the Sinosphere to Majapahit..

I think Cham settlement in Cagayan and Pampanga will definitely change history..it will make Luzon an ALT Aceh, alot of Chams did migrate to Sumatra in OTL becoming the ancestors of Acehnese, Luzon is nearer to Champa.
 
If it's prehispanic, it's not Philippine~

What we call our "natural borders" only came about because of the Spanish period. In another world, it could have been that these islands would be a province of Indonesia, or perhaps a crown of the British Empire in an arc sweeping from the Malay Peninsula west to Borneo and north to Batanes. It could have been that the Philippines would be a country of five regions, with Taiwan and Borneo subsumed into itself.

And with a pre-1565 TL, it could have been that Mindanao and Palawan would be provinces of a Bruneian empire, or the northern half of what we call the Philippines would be a Sinicized tributary state akin to Vietnam. It could even be both, and the Philippines would be not one, but two nations with entirely divergent histories.

Balkanization is just one of the possibilities. Some sort of unification is not unlikely. It just depends on the right factors.

For example, if Luzon becomes a united entity (either indianized or sinicized) much earlier, they might venture into an expansion southward. Or maybe Majapahit gets wanked like there's no tomorrow and assimilate the entire archipelago culturally.

To sum it up, cultural homogeneity or heterogeneity decides whether this proto-Philippines can be united or remain divided.
 
Balkanization is just one of the possibilities. Some sort of unification is not unlikely. It just depends on the right factors.

For example, if Luzon becomes a united entity (either indianized or sinicized) much earlier, they might venture into an expansion southward. Or maybe Majapahit gets wanked like there's no tomorrow and assimilate the entire archipelago culturally.

To sum it up, cultural homogeneity or heterogeneity decides whether this proto-Philippines can be united or remain divided.

What is more probable for Luzon is that it would be more Javacized like Bali.
 
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